We know how to reduce murders, and it is not the trump way

[Dutch Uncle]

After an execution, the murder rate goes up. Murders are not long term thinkers, almost by definition, so it does little to reduce the murder rate. It does create a situation where more people are thinking that killing is the answer.

There's also the problem of making executions easier and spread across more crimes. Trump wanted the death penalty for drug dealers. Okay, so if a drug dealer is caught by a policemen, why give up when shooting the cop increases their chance of avoiding prison? Why not? The penalty is the same.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Jeezuz it’s hard to believe you’re that uninformed. The nazis considered Jews to be cheats and thieves in business. Certainly not violent.
But quite telling how you compare Jews to Central American gangs.

Your support for the Nazis is unsurprising just like your views regarding drugging women and raping them.

 

[Walt]

Jeezuz it’s hard to believe you’re that uninformed. The nazis considered Jews to be cheats and thieves in business. Certainly not violent.
But quite telling how you compare Jews to Central American gangs.

Kristallnacht was all about supposed Jewish propensity for violence.

The gangs in El Salvador are urban, while the Natives in El Salvador are rural. Why are huge numbers of Natives being rounded up? Why is their land being confiscated?

 

[Geeko Sportivo]

After an execution, the murder rate goes up. Murders are not long term thinkers, almost by definition, so it does little to reduce the murder rate. It does create a situation where more people are thinking that killing is the answer.

I don't know Walt, but watching someone hang, is not a pleasant sight. And I would think it would be a deterrence because no one wants to die like that.

Yes, some people still commit suicide by hanging themselves in the privacy of their bedrooms or jail cells, but you never hear of anyone hanging themselves out in public for all to see!

 

[Into the Night]

trump said Boston would be a mess, because they refused to follow his idea of a war on neighborhoods. Well, right now Boston is going to be the safest big city in America. The murder rate has dropped by 50%.

No, it hasn't. They just stopped reporting to the FBI, like many other cities.

Having the police raid neighborhoods, stop and frisk, and bang heads, does little to nothing to reduce violence. It does make it impossible for anyone in the neighborhood asking for help from the police. The trump way does not work.

Not the Trump way. Learn English.

It has been 20 years since the Boston police have shot an unarmed Black man. That buys a lot of trust that other police departments do not have. But most major cities in blue states have falling murder rates. Philadelphia has a 40% drop, Baltimore has a 32% drop, New York has a 13% drop, Chicago has a 10% drop, etc.

No drop, Wally. Argument from randU fallacy.

How Boston became the safest big city in America

Murder is declining across the country, but Boston has led the way

www.economist.com

False authority fallacy.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

I don't know Walt, but watching someone hang, is not a pleasant sight. And I would think it would be a deterrence because no one wants to die like that.

Yes, some people still commit suicide by hanging themselves in the privacy of their bedrooms or jail cells, but you never hear of anyone hanging themselves out in public for all to see!

A deterrence only works if there are alternatives. If we make stealing a loaf of bread a hanging offense, sure, people who have food to eat would be deterred, but those who are starving to death anyway won't be deterred.

As a conversation Cypress and I were having in the Nice Thread, people need to have hope in order to change. If they have no hope, they won't change.

 

[Into the Night]

Wow, you speak for all El Salvadorans?

A huge number of El Salvadorans are upset their loved ones are locked up in prisons without even being accused of a crime. They would protest against this, but protesting is a sure way to get locked up in prison without even being accused of a crime. The police in El Salvador have been handed the right to lock up anyone they please.

But the alt right claims this stops drug smuggling... Where is the evidence the drug smuggling has stopped? Isn't a large amount of the drug smuggling done by the very El Salvadorian police that now have the right to lock up whoever they want without even accusing them of a crime, much less having any evidence?

Making shit up won't work, Wally.

 

[Into the Night]

Your support for the Nazis is unsurprising just like your views regarding drugging women and raping them.

DON'T TRY TO BLAME NAZI GERMANY ON TRUMP, SYBIL!

 

[Dutch Uncle]

DON'T TRY TO BLAME NAZI GERMANY ON TRUMP, SYBIL!

^^^
Sybil is so easily triggered. Sad.

 

[archives]

El Salvador's President Bukele wins re-election by huge margin​

El Salvador's President Bukele wins re-election by huge margin

Nayib Bukele, who has led a crackdown on gang crime, has been re-elected by a landslide.

www.bbc.com

Salvadoran gang crackdown​

For decades, El Salvador had one of the highest rates of gang-related violence in the world. In 2015, the country's homicide rate reached 103 homicides per 100,000 people–or 6,650 homicides registered that year–making it the most violent country in the Western Hemisphere.<a href="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salvadoran_gang_crackdown#cite_note-IS2016-10"><span>[</span>10<span>]</span></a> By 2018, the homicide rate decreased to 52 homicides per 100,000 people (3,340 homicides).<a href="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salvadoran_gang_crackdown#cite_note-UNhom-11"><span>[</span>11<span>]</span></a>

Salvadoran gang crackdown - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

What they did in El Salvador works

The US is nowhere near comparable El Salvador, for starters, the US doesn’t have the crime and homicide rates that El Salvador had, and, cartels aren’t dominate here, applying Bukele’s solutions here would be like employing a jackhammer to kill an ant

Plus Bukele’s approach also included paying off select gangs plus the surrender of rights Americans would never accept

 

[Geeko Sportivo]

A deterrence only works if there are alternatives. If we make stealing a loaf of bread a hanging offense, sure, people who have food to eat would be deterred, but those who are starving to death anyway won't be deterred.

As a conversation Cypress and I were having in the Nice Thread, people need to have hope in order to change. If they have no hope, they won't change.

I know this- when Donnie Trump pardons criminals, it certainly does not deter crimes.

I think it actually increases the chances for crimes.

 

[archives]

Crime, crime, crime, it is almost as hyperventilated as the immigration apocalypse, fact remains crime in America is down, homicides are down, the crime terror is echoed throughout the right wing media to get all those white boomers living in gated communities to get out and vote for Trump

 

[Dutch Uncle]

The US is nowhere near comparable El Salvador, for starters, the US doesn’t have the crime and homicide rates that El Salvador had, and, cartels aren’t dominate here, applying Bukele’s solutions here would be like employing a jackhammer to kill an ant

Plus Bukele’s approach also included paying off select gangs plus the surrender of rights Americans would never accept

MAGAts are poorly educated and not-too-bright to begin with.

They think it's fair to compare the US to a country that is 1/467th the size of the US, is smaller than New Jersey with a population less than NYC.

 

[Geeko Sportivo]

and the increasing amount of convictions being overturned because they found someone else committed the crime? of does that not factor in to your 'government is always correct' format?

I am going to say, that you make a good point.

However, in every case I know of, where someone was convicted and then overturned by DNA evidence, IT WAS A MINORITY.

SO justice in America sucks for minorities. And many minorities will be asked to sign a confession just to get a reduced sentence- like being offered a sentence of life in prison instead of the death penalty- for example.

And true, State provided lawyers are not good lawyers always. And who knows if they are doing the dirty work for some Racist corrupted Judge or DA.

SO, let me reiterate- WHEN DNA EVIDENCE IS USED TO PROVE THE GUILT, or there is a credible witness, THOSE MURDERERS SHOULD BE IMMEDIATELY EXECUTED.

If the evidence is circumstantial, PROBABLY SHOULD NOT BE IMMEDIATELY EXECUTED.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

I know this- when Donnie Trump pardons criminals, it certainly does not deter crimes.

I think it actually increases the chances for crimes.

Well, to be fair, Trump only pardons white traitors, not drug dealers....AFAIK.

The data says you're wrong since most murders are committed by people who don't think clearly. Many crimes of violence can be tied to mental illness. That said, I support the death penalty but only for the most heinous crimes, such as treason,

The pros and cons of the death penalty

Despite global progress towards abolition, public opinion remains divided as executions increase

theweek.com

Most murders are committed either in the heat of passion, under the influence of alcohol or drugs, or because of mental illness. The few murderers who plan their crimes "intend and expect to avoid punishment altogether by not getting caught".

 

[Dutch Uncle]

I am going to say, that you make a good point.

However, in every case I know of, where someone was convicted and then overturned by DNA evidence, IT WAS A MINORITY.

SO justice in America sucks for minorities. And many minorities will be asked to sign a confession just to get a reduced sentence- like being offered a sentence of life in prison instead of the death penalty- for example.

And true, State provided lawyers are not good lawyers always. And who knows if they are doing the dirty work for some Racist corrupted Judge or DA.

SO, let me reiterate- WHEN DNA EVIDENCE IS USED TO PROVE THE GUILT, or there is a credible witness, THOSE MURDERERS SHOULD BE IMMEDIATELY EXECUTED.

If the evidence is circumstantial, PROBABLY SHOULD NOT BE IMMEDIATELY EXECUTED.

Executing even one innocent American goes against American ideals.

 

[christiefan915]

Yea, sure... Crime and murder are not functions of some form of 'social justice.' They are functions of economic deprivation, social injustice like devaluing men, and an education system that puts nonsense ahead of teaching usable skills.

Do you really think that gangsters become so with no reason?

^ Surely you didn't type that with a straight face.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

^ Surely you didn't type that with a straight face.

Terry's mind isn't as clear as it used to be. Now, well into his retirement, he's increasingly paranoid.

 

[christiefan915]

Terry's mind isn't as clear as it used to be. Now, well into his retirement, he's increasingly paranoid.

Agree that something's not quite right there. Do you feel devalued?

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Agree that something's not quite right there. Do you feel devalued?

No. Not one iota. The JPP MAGAts are fairly uniform in their demographics and beliefs. They are Euro-American, elderly and feel that others have cheated them out of their entitlements....whatever those might be.

I have no clue what @T. A. Gardner feels he's been shorted. Paranoia doesn't require reason. He's simply swallowing the MAGA line that he's been cheated and that Trump will help him get what is his.

If he gets violent or commits a crime and is sent to prison, he'll lose his military pension. Given his state of mind, I think he risks losing everything.