What has the right wing become.

cawacko said:
My understanding is SD is having quite the homeless problems these days. You said you visited SF recently and it is almost impossible to be here and not come in contact with homeless/mentally ill people. Many issues fall on the right/left paradigm but the rights of mentally ill people I don't think is one of them. Not an easy answer from letting them be on the streets to forcing them into institutions of some sort. Dealing with homeless makes the news here on almost a daily basis. It is something we interact with everyday.
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Agreed. Part of the problem was that people took advantage of the forced commitment laws. Also the insane asylums were notoriously underfunded and had horrific conditions. The horrifying conditions led many "reformers" to demand that forced commitment laws be negated. Now you can only be committed if you are a considered a danger to yourself or others through a 5150 declaration. The logical solution would be to appropriately fund mental institutions so they are safe, comfortable places to live and then allow force committal through legal procedures that do not require 5150 declarations.
 
smb said:
Agreed. Part of the problem was that people took advantage of the forced commitment laws. Also the insane asylums were notoriously underfunded and had horrific conditions. The horrifying conditions led many "reformers" to demand that forced commitment laws be negated. Now you can only be committed if you are a considered a danger to yourself or others through a 5150 declaration. The logical solution would be to appropriately fund mental institutions so they are safe, comfortable places to live and then allow force committal through legal procedures that do not require 5150 declarations.
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I feel like we've had both a state tax and a local City tax where the money was supposed to go to the mentally ill. I don't work in government so I have no idea what's been done with it but when I look around SF at least I see a problem that isn't getting better and is basically getting worse. And this is during a time when the state and City economy have been booming.

I can't sit here from my computer and offer and easy solution because there isn't one but from my position it doesn't feel like the resources that were supposedly directed at the problem have done a whole lot.
 
smb said:
Again if our goal is helping the poor then why attach conditions?

The system is designed to be extraneous so that people will give up instead of going through all that is needed to sign up for the benefits. This is baked into the recipe for how much a particular program will cost.

So tell me how is a person who is mentally ill to the point that they are not grounded in reality is going to be able to know what resources are available to them?

Again our government has always made it appear like we are helping poor. They are not actually helping the poor. It is something that most middle class liberals can make themselves feel good about. They don't have to do anything about actually helping the poor because they voted for someone who says they care about the poor. Meanwhile we literally have insane people wondering our streets every day with no food, no shelter and no hope. So again tell me how much our government cares about poor people.
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There is ways for people to get help and there is ways for people who have any type of restriction getting assistance to help them sign up for help. But it can't do the impossible, it can't go door to door every day asking if they need help. Listen I've been working with the homeless for years and there is a massive amount of programs out their to help, You find someone who needs help , have them get their own social worker from their county and they will weave them through the process , Yes There is tons of holes in every large system that works with this massive number of people and it can be a pain. Even for me who knows where the resources are for many different things. The best approach is state and federal fact check that you fill out to see if there is help for you in your specific position with your specific income.
 
smb said:
Again if our goal is helping the poor then why attach conditions?

The system is designed to be extraneous so that people will give up instead of going through all that is needed to sign up for the benefits. This is baked into the recipe for how much a particular program will cost.

So tell me how is a person who is mentally ill to the point that they are not grounded in reality is going to be able to know what resources are available to them?

Again our government has always made it appear like we are helping poor. They are not actually helping the poor. It is something that most middle class liberals can make themselves feel good about. They don't have to do anything about actually helping the poor because they voted for someone who says they care about the poor. Meanwhile we literally have insane people wondering our streets every day with no food, no shelter and no hope. So again tell me how much our government cares about poor people.
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by the way your first comment is really quite naive.
 
jbander said:
by the way your first comment is really quite naive.
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Naivete and heart are oft confused.

I love how many liberals love to bash the evangelical Christians. They state oh what hypocrites they are. They preach all this stuff and don't live it. They make them the but of jokes. They revel in their downfall. Yet they don't see their own hypocrisy.

What does it matter to fill out a piece of paperwork? To have to do this and do that prior to us deigning to give you aid. These same liberals that profess to want to help the poor always put up roadblocks to giving that aid out.

Don't get me wrong I am no Bible thumper. I just find things like what you are saying to be ridiculous. If a person is hungry feed them. If they don't have shelter give them shelter. If they are not sane try to heal them.

It is not about being naive or cynical. It is about doing what you say you are going to do. If you care about the poor and don't want them to suffer the solution is easy. You just have to have will to execute it.
 
SMB quote"Again if our goal is helping the poor then why attach conditions?" This he seems to think is reasonable somehow, This from the hate party that wants to take away all the benefits to these people because they are all just conning the system for freebies.
Any group that claims to be Christian and then voted for this piece of shit. the ultimate hater, the ultimate evil ,the ultimate cruel, the ultimate sleaze, the ultimate God hater and the person who preaches the exact opposite of what Jesus preaches. Anyone who votes for this piece of shit as their leader is no Christian.
 
jbander said:
SMB quote"Again if our goal is helping the poor then why attach conditions?" This he seems to think is reasonable somehow, This from the hate party that wants to take away all the benefits to these people because they are all just conning the system for freebies.
Any group that claims to be Christian and then voted for this piece of shit. the ultimate hater, the ultimate evil ,the ultimate cruel, the ultimate sleaze, the ultimate God hater and the person who preaches the exact opposite of what Jesus preaches. Anyone who votes for this piece of shit as their leader is no Christian.
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You must have me mistaken with someone else. I am neither a Republican nor an Evangelical. I am Deist. I loathe Trump. So I really don't understand what you are trying to get at?
 
smb said:
You must have me mistaken with someone else. I am neither a Republican nor an Evangelical. I am Deist. I loathe Trump. So I really don't understand what you are trying to get at?
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Go ahead and tell us why anyone should believe any line like that as it stands now no one belongs to the hate party and no one voted for scum bag now and everyone knows that isn't true so why should I believe what you say. You sound like just another right winger that argues against everything I say, so I call it as I see it. You don't???????
 
jbander said:
Go ahead and tell us why anyone should believe any line like that as it stands now no one belongs to the hate party and no one voted for scum bag now and everyone knows that isn't true so why should I believe what you say. You sound like just another right winger that argues against everything I say, so I call it as I see it. You don't???????
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You mistake me for someone who gives a shit what you think of me. Think what you want I don't care. Because I criticize liberals when they are wrong like a criticize conservatives when they are wrong you want to label me as something. That is fine label me whatever the fuck you want to if that makes you sleep at night.
 
cawacko said:
So you saw the price increases during your time here. The medium home price today in SF is $1.7. San Mateo and Santa Clara counties are both over $1m. (not that SD is cheap, it isn't, but not as bad as up here I believe). Amazing place but a lot of angst with the cost of living.
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You don't have as much of a problem with it as you claim.
 
smb said:
You mistake me for someone who gives a shit what you think of me. Think what you want I don't care. Because I criticize liberals when they are wrong like a criticize conservatives when they are wrong you want to label me as something. That is fine label me whatever the fuck you want to if that makes you sleep at night.
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This is great then I don't have to be concerned about your feelings when I make a fool out of you on this forum.
 
jbander said:
This is great then I don't have to be concerned about your feelings when I make a fool out of you on this forum.
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Just how are you doing that exactly. By wrongly accusing me a being a Republican because you are so narrow minded you cannot see past your own partisanship? Or is the fact that you get so defensive when someone attacks liberal and conservatives that you must try and label them so you feel better? Sorry that is making you look like a fool not me. If you want to have an intelligent discussion then check your precious needed party affiliations at the door and talk about the issues and not about the people. Until then you are the one that looks foolish.
 
smb said:
Just how are you doing that exactly. By wrongly accusing me a being a Republican because you are so narrow minded you cannot see past your own partisanship? Or is the fact that you get so defensive when someone attacks liberal and conservatives that you must try and label them so you feel better? Sorry that is making you look like a fool not me. If you want to have an intelligent discussion then check your precious needed party affiliations at the door and talk about the issues and not about the people. Until then you are the one that looks foolish.
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Your ridiculous , if you don't give a dam what I think, why are you trying to extend this conversation. and I told you why I don't believe anyone who I align with the right on what they say about what party they are in or who they voted for. At this point if you accepted only the people who admitted to being in the hate party or who admitted to have voted for scum bag he wouldn't have had enough support to be elected dog catcher in a country town. Lots of people have bailed on this pile of crap.
 
cawacko said:
Lol. This board has seen its share of bad trolls but you rank near the top.
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These people are so full of hate that they would sell out this country so they can continue to express their hatred of just about everything, as they wave a flag over the top of it and talk about god.
There has always been a group like this in this country but this well groomed group of the right had enough numbers to elect this hate monster. What says it all to me is that they are still supporting this piece of crap even when he is by all indications owned by Putin and the Russians and is more of a dictator then a President and is so far from the teaching of Jesus
How hypocritical and fake are these evangelicals , that were needed to elect this pagan, this anti Christ and what are their ministers that stood in front of their flock and told them to vote for this trash.
What has this country become. Will we get it back to where we help the needy, don't sell hate messages about immigrants, don't attack our government and our courts and media and every criminal watch dog in this country has. From any voice that won't support this mad man. How does this crap get a following in this country.
 
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