What is socialism?

[Robo]

All those who work for wages rather than live mainly on stocks and shares or stolen land, obviously.

So then by your definition The President Of the United States and the Congress thereof are all "working class," correct? I do believe they work for wages. Then there's the CEO's of multi billion $ corporations who are also compensated by wages/salaries. Then we have the elitist show business performers who collect a wage for each performance. All "working class," right?

 

[iolo]

The point I was trying to make is that your description of socialism as "Socialism, as you very well know, is rule by the vast working-class majority" is not only very limited but totally inaccurate as it does not describe any socialist country in practice.

There are no socialist countries in practice because, as you know, you immediately send in your stormtroopers to murder all those who want to take power from your rich masters. Socialism remains what it always was and always will be: the rule of the vast working majority. It has yet to be achieved, but if your masters manage to prevent it, the human race is finished.

 

[iolo]

So your brand of socialism allows everybody to fight over the best cave, and which self assigned lord we choose to obey, right?

Stop playing the clown. We are moving way beyond your pretence to be a mad dog fighting for bones: the human race has plenty and can live well if we get shot of your ludicrous system, with its fatuous wars and slumps. As you know, the moment you produce enough, your system has one of its standard fits and millions are unable to work.

 

[iolo]

So then by your definition The President Of the United States and the Congress thereof are all "working class," correct? I do believe they work for wages. Then there's the CEO's of multi billion $ corporations who are also compensated by wages/salaries. Then we have the elitist show business performers who collect a wage for each performance. All "working class," right?

Your current President, as you know, lives off shares, confidence tricks, lies and avoiding taxes. Insofar as your congress works for their money rather than peddling their arses to the rich, yes, however few. But yes, those who work mainly for wages are working class. It's an interesting question whether this includes thieves such as those you admire, but probably a few of them are misguided workers. Why do you ask? Want to unionise them, do you?

 

[Robo]

Stop playing the clown. We are moving way beyond your pretence to be a mad dog fighting for bones: the human race has plenty and can live well if we get shot of your ludicrous system, with its fatuous wars and slumps. As you know, the moment you produce enough, your system has one of its standard fits and millions are unable to work.

I repeat, So your brand of socialism allows everybody to fight over the best cave, and which self assigned lord we choose to obey, right?

What would you call what's going on in Venezuela, if not socialism?

You're yet to explain who governs your so-called "working class."

If there's no capitalism who hires the "working class?" Who pays the "working class?" Who controls the money? Who writes the laws? Who enforces the laws? Come on friend, lay out your planned socialist society for us so we can also believe in it. All the years I've challenged you to do that, and you present nothing except bleeping pipe dreams. You cannot explain how anything works for the "working class" because you deny them a governing body, a solution to their greed and disagreements and criminals. You haven't a bleeping clue of what you promote. It's all gibberish and comedy and preposterous insane imagination.

 

[iolo]

I repeat, So your brand of socialism allows everybody to fight over the best cave, and which self assigned lord we choose to obey, right?

What would you call what's going on in Venezuela, if not socialism?

You're yet to explain who governs your so-called "working class."

If there's no capitalism who hires the "working class?" Who pays the "working class?" Who controls the money? Who writes the laws? Who enforces the laws? Come on friend, lay out your planned socialist society for us so we can also believe in it. All the years I've challenged you to do that, and you present nothing except bleeping pipe dreams. You cannot explain how anything works for the "working class" because you deny them a governing body, a solution to their greed and disagreements and criminals. You haven't a bleeping clue of what you promote. It's all gibberish and comedy and preposterous insane imagination.

What do I call Venezuela's regime? Capitalism, obviously. What did you think it was, your Martian homeland? If there's no capitalism nobody 'hires' anyone, obviously - we just spend a few hours a week dong what needs to be done to see everyone gets enough. There isn't any money - why on earth would anyone want to waste time making silly little bits of metal? We all write the rules of out local area, obviously, the few that are needed, and we enforce them. When you are a big grown-up boy you will begin to understand that everyone needn't live in your nuthouse. Do you even suppose everyone always did? I'm afraid you've been very, very badly brainwashed.

 

[Robo]

Your current President, as you know, lives off shares, confidence tricks, lies and avoiding taxes.

Shares of what? Shares of what he’s built? How many politicians anywhere do you know who don’t lie? How many people do you know anywhere that don’t lie, excepting the liars that claim they don’t lie? Trump’s taxes are scrutinized by the IRS, (Internal Revenue Service). If he’s cheated he’ll be exposed, fined and face prosecution. Half of the nation would love to prosecute him for anything they can come up with real or not. He’s hated by left and right alike because he’s successful and puts the “AMERICAN” working class first and goes after the international thieves.

nsofar as your congress works for their money rather than peddling their arses to the rich, yes, however few.

The Congress, left & right, for your information, peddles their asses to their corporate cronies and robs the “BLUE COLLAR” working class of their tax dollars and uses the loot to bribe the poor folk’s votes. The folks they keep poor by keeping them reliant on those government handouts of the blue collar working class’s taxes.

But yes, those who work mainly for wages are working class.

Then taking risk with your capital savings and starting and operating a business doesn’t qualify in your definition because there’s no “wages” paid by others, right? Business people are the crooks, right? People who “RISK” invest their savings and invest them wisely to a point where their investments finance their standard of living don’t qualify as the “working class” because they don’t need wages anymore to live comfortably, right? That’s only the majority of “RETIRED” Americans. They’re the crooked bastards, huh?

 

[Robo]

What do I call Venezuela's regime? Capitalism, obviously.

You only reveal your insanity friend! If Venezuela's regime is capitalist now, what was it before the dictators took over and Venezuela was prosperous?

 

[iolo]

Shares of what? Shares of what he’s built? How many politicians anywhere do you know who don’t lie? How many people do you know anywhere that don’t lie, excepting the liars that claim they don’t lie? Trump’s taxes are scrutinized by the IRS, (Internal Revenue Service). If he’s cheated he’ll be exposed, fined and face prosecution. Half of the nation would love to prosecute him for anything they can come up with real or not. He’s hated by left and right alike because he’s successful and puts the “AMERICAN” working class first and goes after the international thieves.

He couldn't as you know, build a cardboard box - he lives off what his father thieved and debt. No rich people pay realistic tax - that's one of the very many reasons they have a government. You will, of course, suggest he publishes his tax returns, so we can check. He is held in contempt by everyone because he is a fat, useless, lying fool.

The Congress, left & right, for your information, peddles their asses to their corporate cronies and robs the “BLUE COLLAR” working class of their tax dollars and uses the loot to bribe the poor folk’s votes. The folks they keep poor by keeping them reliant on those government handouts of the blue collar working class’s taxes.

Doubtless. Is this a point in favour of capitalism?

Then taking risk with your capital savings and starting and operating a business doesn’t qualify in your definition because there’s no “wages” paid by others, right? Business people are the crooks, right? People who “RISK” invest their savings and invest them wisely to a point where their investments finance their standard of living don’t qualify as the “working class” because they don’t need wages anymore to live comfortably, right? That’s only the majority of “RETIRED” Americans. They’re the crooked bastards, huh?

I'm not clear as to what you are saying here. Many workers live on pensions, otherwise your system starves them to death. All the time you want to find 'villains' or heroes, and there aren't any, there's just a crappy system. Some people want to join the thieves, and some do. So what? The question is whether we want the thief class to destroy humanity.

 

[iolo]

You only reveal your insanity friend! If Venezuela's regime is capitalist now, what was it before the dictators took over and Venezuela was prosperous?

A capitalist colony, obviously.

 

[Robo]

He couldn't as you know, build a cardboard box - he lives off what his father thieved and debt.

Actually, I don’t know he couldn’t build a cardboard box, and neither do you. I don’t care if he’s simply multiplied what his father financed him or left him. In America that’s absolutely legal and expected.

No rich people pay realistic tax - that's one of the very many reasons they have a government.

Actually the top 1% of America’s wealthy pay the overwhelming amount of income taxes. The top 50% pay 99% of the taxes. And after refunds, the bottom 50% of wage earners pay nothing but minimal payroll taxes based as a % of their wages and some even pay no taxes after they receive child care credits and rewards from the government.

You will, of course, suggest he publishes his tax returns, so we can check.

I don’t care if he ever publishes his tax returns. There’s no legal requirement for him to do so. I only care about what he does relative to governing the nation, and so far, he’s on the PLUS side of that equation qwith me.

He is held in contempt by everyone because he is a fat, useless, lying fool.

Actually, in the name of honesty, he’s only held in contempt by around half of the people. The other half are damned well pleased with what he’s doing.

I'm not clear as to what you are saying here. Many workers live on pensions, otherwise your system starves them to death. All the time you want to find 'villains' or heroes, and there aren't any, there's just a crappy system.

Actually, I live on a pension and am nowhere near starving to death. I worked for my pension and I invested wisely.

Our “crappy” system, warts and all is still the best on earth and that’s why millions want to come here and even illegally sneak into our country.

Some people want to join the thieves, and some do. So what? The question is whether we want the thief class to destroy humanity.

NO! Actually what the question is, is “what other system is better” a question you never could answer.

 

[Robo]

A capitalist colony, obviously.

So capitalism by your own admission is "PROSPERITY." Is that correct?

Now show us the prosperous socialist nation! OH! That's right, according to you there's no such thing as a true socialist nation! Apparently you've never bothered to wonder 'WHY," huh?

 

[montgomery]

So capitalism by your own admission is "PROSPERITY." Is that correct?

Now show us the prosperous socialist nation! OH! That's right, according to you there's no such thing as a true socialist nation! Apparently you've never bothered to wonder 'WHY," huh?

America's capitalism: Huge income inequality in which the middle class is being eliminated and becoming the poor. That truth is not arguable anymore and so just has to be ignored.

Scandinavian countries' capitalism: Much more even distribution of the country's wealth.

They're both examples of capitalism but one is greedy capitalism and the other is socially responsible capitalism.

Socially responsible capitalism is capitalism with a healthy blend of socialism included. That's the basis for the debate! There's no sense in pretending that pure capitalism exists in America and pure socialism is practiced in those Scandinavian countries.

Compare Norway's prison system to America's for an example.

https://www.businessinsider.com/why-norways-prison-system-is-so-successful-2014-12

Of secondary importance to Americans, compare the recidivism rate. And of major importance to America's capitalists, compare the cost.

 

[Flash]

There are no socialist countries in practice because, as you know, you immediately send in your stormtroopers to murder all those who want to take power from your rich masters. Socialism remains what it always was and always will be: the rule of the vast working majority. It has yet to be achieved, but if your masters manage to prevent it, the human race is finished.

You must not be familiar with China or Cuba. But they did not take power away from rich masters, they just gave it to rich socialist masters. Socialism can't be the rule of the vast working majority since it does not exist.

You are confusing Marx-Lenin theory with real countries that are largely socialist.

 

[Nordberg]

The fact that the wealthy are paying a huge proportion of the taxes collected in no way says they are being oppressed. It merely shows how bad the wealth gap is. The top tax rate has been slashed over and over. The wealthy are keeping more and more of their income. The small part they pay is just huge becuse they have all the fucking money. Our wealth gap is worse than the Gilded Age.

 

[Flash]

The fact that the wealthy are paying a huge proportion of the taxes collected in no way says they are being oppressed. It merely shows how bad the wealth gap is. The top tax rate has been slashed over and over. The wealthy are keeping more and more of their income. The small part they pay is just huge becuse they have all the fucking money. Our wealth gap is worse than the Gilded Age.

True, although the lower tax rate raises more taxes as a percentage of GDP than the 90%+ tax rates of the 1950s.

 

[Robo]

The fact that the wealthy are paying a huge proportion of the taxes collected in no way says they are being oppressed. It merely shows how bad the wealth gap is. The top tax rate has been slashed over and over. The wealthy are keeping more and more of their income. The small part they pay is just huge becuse they have all the fucking money. Our wealth gap is worse than the Gilded Age.

The wealth gap today is the result of Barrack Obama's economic policies of tax and regulate and put more and more of the so-called working class on the welfare dole. He set new records for food stamp handouts and workman's compensation creating a welfare state harnessing vast numbers of the so-called working class to a government reliance and diminishing their incentive to work and be self reliant. The folks made the best choice by electing Trump. His "TRUMP ECONOMY" is providing millions of jobs and wages for the "WORKING CLASS" are rising. Get behind him and recreate the thriving middle class.

 

[iolo]

Actually, I don’t know he couldn’t build a cardboard box, and neither do you. I don’t care if he’s simply multiplied what his father financed him or left him. In America that’s absolutely legal and expected.



Actually the top 1% of America’s wealthy pay the overwhelming amount of income taxes. The top 50% pay 99% of the taxes. And after refunds, the bottom 50% of wage earners pay nothing but minimal payroll taxes based as a % of their wages and some even pay no taxes after they receive child care credits and rewards from the government.



I don’t care if he ever publishes his tax returns. There’s no legal requirement for him to do so. I only care about what he does relative to governing the nation, and so far, he’s on the PLUS side of that equation qwith me.



Actually, in the name of honesty, he’s only held in contempt by around half of the people. The other half are damned well pleased with what he’s doing.



Actually, I live on a pension and am nowhere near starving to death. I worked for my pension and I invested wisely.

Our “crappy” system, warts and all is still the best on earth and that’s why millions want to come here and even illegally sneak into our country.



NO! Actually what the question is, is “what other system is better” a question you never could answer.

The only other system there is - democratic working-class socialism, where we take what we need and put in all we can. You love the non-system that gives you something to growl about at the rest of the world you are murdering. A normal trumper.

 

[iolo]

So capitalism by your own admission is "PROSPERITY." Is that correct?

Now show us the prosperous socialist nation! OH! That's right, according to you there's no such thing as a true socialist nation! Apparently you've never bothered to wonder 'WHY," huh?

Capitalism, child, like living in trees is a necessary stage in our growing up into people. You long to keep everyone out of your cave, eh? There's nice! I never need to wonder why. kid, because the answer is, as you know, mass murder by your merry chums. Told you that before, but you're not allowed to listen.

 

[Robo]

The only other system there is - democratic working-class socialism, where we take what we need and put in all we can.

Preaching the communist talking points again, huh friend? Of course we should all know by now that you'll never, ever present any in depth explanation of just how that system ever could work. The people of the earth are doomed to be governed by other people. What you present is simply anarchy, war lords and hippy communes. I personally would rather live under a "Constitutional Republican" system of government. The only contempt I have for the wealthy is what the politicians allow them to get away with.

You love the non-system that gives you something to growl about at the rest of the world you are murdering. A normal trumper.

And surely you're going to present all of those "rest of the world that I'm murdering?" Who in hell are they? Tell me so I can change my ways!!!!!