What is socialism?

Robo said:
So says the fellow that claims socialism is absolute democracy whereby "the people" govern themselves by referendum without any hint of government. The same fellow who can never and will never answer any questions about the actual "governing" of such a system and how it can actually work successfully. You sir are the mother of all absurdity!
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I don't know what that is supposed to mean - American dialect, is it? Clearly there is no country on earth where there is real democracy, since all the arms, all the brainwashing institutions and everything else are controlled by the very rich. Socialism won't need a government, kid: we'll have got rid of the crooks and it'll be 'from each according to his/her ability, from each according to his/her need'. Only nutters try to foretell the way future people will run things, kid.
 
iolo said:
I don't know what that is supposed to mean - American dialect, is it? Clearly there is no country on earth where there is real democracy, since all the arms, all the brainwashing institutions and everything else are controlled by the very rich. Socialism won't need a government, kid: we'll have got rid of the crooks and it'll be 'from each according to his/her ability, from each according to his/her need'. Only nutters try to foretell the way future people will run things, kid.
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More of your pie-in-the-sky ideology, right dear friend? Shall I try again to prod you to explain the perfect socialist place of which you dream, where no government is necessary, where all humanity is in perfect harmony, there are no rich and there are no poor only the perfect collective of perfect humans who perfectly always agree one with the other, all do their perfect part to support one another and all economy is always perfect and heaven on earth is realized by all? Who and when will that ever be organized friend? WHO runs the show, WHO makes the laws, WHO enforces the laws, WHO decides WHO does what? What happens if someone leaves their perfect being and disagrees with the rest of the perfect folk? In short friend, how does your perfect socialist world operate without a government? WAR LORDS??????
 
Robo said:
More of your pie-in-the-sky ideology, right dear friend? Shall I try again to prod you to explain the perfect socialist place of which you dream, where no government is necessary, where all humanity is in perfect harmony, there are no rich and there are no poor only the perfect collective of perfect humans who perfectly always agree one with the other, all do their perfect part to support one another and all economy is always perfect and heaven on earth is realized by all? Who and when will that ever be organized friend? WHO runs the show, WHO makes the laws, WHO enforces the laws, WHO decides WHO does what? What happens if someone leaves their perfect being and disagrees with the rest of the perfect folk? In short friend, how does your perfect socialist world operate without a government? WAR LORDS??????
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Why should they perfectly agree, kid? We will organise things, doubtless, allowing those who don't like one thing to go elsewhere and so the other. How the shit would I knows. You may have crystal balls to go with your bang-bang, but I just know this current shit must be got shot of or kill us all.. Why, if we are not organised by thieves for thieves, will we need a government? What the shit would we want that crap for?
 
Flash said:
You are using "socialist" and "government" interchangeably which completely destroys their meaning. A nation's governmental system is not the same as its economic system.
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China’s governmental system is not consistent with economic socialism because?

America’s governmental system is not consistent with economic socialism because?

Pick your country and its government and explain how and why its governmental system isn’t consistent with its economic ideological systems such as socialism/capitalism and or some hybrid mixture of same.

I am not trying to avoid facing anything because that would suggest value judgments rather than simply trying to describe the meaning of these terms. It is also contrary to the dictionary definition you posted earlier which does not say "government is socialism by definition."
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Pick your own dictionary friend! Every one will tell you the same definition of socialism. They’ll all tell you that “socialism” IS the ownership and or control of the means of production and distribution by “the people,” “the community,” “the government,” Every country with a recognized government, even a dictatorship claim to be governments of the people, The socialist government of the people and or The People’s Republic of someplace or another. Therefore any honest definition of government is a definition also of socialism because of the simplistic fact that governments actually OWN everything and control the production and distribution of and to their “PEOPLE” Any denial of that fact is simply dishonesty!
 
Robo said:
China’s governmental system is not consistent with economic socialism because?

America’s governmental system is not consistent with economic socialism because?

Pick your country and its government and explain how and why its governmental system isn’t consistent with its economic ideological systems such as socialism/capitalism and or some hybrid mixture of same.



Pick your own dictionary friend! Every one will tell you the same definition of socialism. They’ll all tell you that “socialism” IS the ownership and or control of the means of production and distribution by “the people,” “the community,” “the government,” Every country with a recognized government, even a dictatorship claim to be governments of the people, The socialist government of the people and or The People’s Republic of someplace or another. Therefore any honest definition of government is a definition also of socialism because of the simplistic fact that governments actually OWN everything and control the production and distribution of and to their “PEOPLE” Any denial of that fact is simply dishonesty!
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Socialism, as you very well know, is rule by the vast working-class majority. Why do you keep quacking this silly nonsense of yours? Capitalist governments do what is necessary for the survival of capitalism, from health care to death camps, and don't give a twopenny whatsit for people.
 
iolo said:
Why should they perfectly agree, kid? We will organise things, doubtless, allowing those who don't like one thing to go elsewhere and so the other. How the shit would I knows. You may have crystal balls to go with your bang-bang, but I just know this current shit must be got shot of or kill us all.. Why, if we are not organised by thieves for thieves, will we need a government? What the shit would we want that crap for?
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Please sir tell us all how your Utopia socialist perfect world will, would PREVENT being organized by the same gang od bleeping thieves you're badmouthing now?
 
iolo said:
Socialism, as you very well know, is rule by the vast working-class majority. Why do you keep quacking this silly nonsense of yours? Capitalist governments do what is necessary for the survival of capitalism, from health care to death camps, and don't give a twopenny whatsit for people.
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Please define "The Working Class." Who the bleep are you talking about friend?
 
Robo said:
Please sir tell us all how your Utopia socialist perfect world will, would PREVENT being organized by the same gang od bleeping thieves you're badmouthing now?
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The whole point, kiddiewinks, is that only you believe in Utopias. But if you don't have private property or a class system, kid, there is no way for people like you to steal, try as you might.
 
iolo said:
The whole point, kiddiewinks, is that only you believe in Utopias. But if you don't have private property or a class system, kid, there is no way for people like you to steal, try as you might.
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If we don't have private property friend, WHO owns the property?
 
Robo said:
If we don't have private property friend, WHO owns the property?
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The human race, if you must play your antique games. Bit like saying which cave do we all belong to, or which feudal lord we ought to obey, isn't it?
 
Robo said:
I was unaware that you are a foreigner to the United States.

If you're speaking for and promoting single payer healthcare for America. It's actually unconstitutional in America. Amendment 10 to our Constitution forbids our federal government from being involved in the establishment of such socialist programs and gives that authority solely to the individual several states within the United States.

Personally I think single payer sucks! I don't trust the federal government to do much of anything positive for the people. Single payer would be crummy healthcare insurance and would bankrupt the nation in my opinion.
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It's not contrary to your constitution, that's just your interpretation. If it was then your constitution would have to be amended.
 
Flash said:
Americans don't need for the government to take care of everyone--we reserve that for those who cannot take care of themselves.

What does child poverty have to do with freedom and liberty? And U. S. poverty rates do not include government benefits such as TANF, SNAP, housing, Medicaid, WIC, CHIPS, SSI, EITC, education grants.........
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I fully understand that's your position and is the position of the right in America. But I also understand it's mostly the position of the left in America too and that's the reason why they continue to supprt the Democratic party.

See my comments re: Chris Hedges and his position.
 
iolo said:
The human race, if you must play your antique games. Bit like saying which cave do we all belong to, or which feudal lord we ought to obey, isn't it?
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I think the only hope in changing them is in introducing them to socially responsible capitalism. If it's done slowly and gently they may not even know they are learning.

Oh, and I wouldn't waste any time on the really hardcore Trump supporters who are going to be contrary by their nature they've had to adopt to support the evil psychopath. Their Kristyun conscience is the only factor that can bring them back to being human again.
 
iolo said:
Socialism, as you very well know, is rule by the vast working-class majority. Why do you keep quacking this silly nonsense of yours? Capitalist governments do what is necessary for the survival of capitalism, from health care to death camps, and don't give a twopenny whatsit for people.
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There is no socialist economy ruled by the working-class majority--that is Marxist ideology. Cuba, China, the former Soviet Union all have/had socialist economies but rule was by the one-party communist rulers.
 
montgomery said:
I fully understand that's your position and is the position of the right in America. But I also understand it's mostly the position of the left in America too and that's the reason why they continue to supprt the Democratic party.

See my comments re: Chris Hedges and his position.
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And the position of libertarians. Many, like myself, don't object philosophically to government assistance, but to the ineffectiveness and inefficiency of government run programs with incentives to spend more to increase their budgets.
 
Flash said:
There is no socialist economy ruled by the working-class majority.
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Obviously, just as there is no capitalism not based on robbery, brainwashing and murder and leading to human extinction. What point were you wanting to make here? Some capitalist economies call themselves 'Christian', some 'Socialist' and some 'free', but they are all exploiting tyrannies, as you know.
 
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iolo said:
Obviously, just as there is no capitalism not based on robbery, brainwashing and murder and leading to human extinction. What point were you wanting to make here? Some capitalist economies call themselves 'Christian', some 'Socialist' and some 'free', but they are all exploiting tyrannies, as you know.
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The point I was trying to make is that your description of socialism as "Socialism, as you very well know, is rule by the vast working-class majority" is not only very limited but totally inaccurate as it does not describe any socialist country in practice.
 
iolo said:
The human race, if you must play your antique games. Bit like saying which cave do we all belong to, or which feudal lord we ought to obey, isn't it?
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So your brand of socialism allows everybody to fight over the best cave, and which self assigned lord we choose to obey, right?
 
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