Well then what is your specific proposal? Articulate it.
What would the ideal leftist America look like?
- Thread starter Yakuda
- Start date
Well then what is your specific proposal? Articulate it.
SmarterthanYou
rebel
As I stated a few posts ago, and have ALWAYS advocated, government should make the minimum regulations necessary to ensure that each individual person has an equal opportunity to pursue their own wealth. Not to have wealth redistributed from others.
T. A. Gardner
Thread Killer
I don't know if it would be "ideal," but a Leftist America would almost certainly be a balkanized one. Instead of a single nation, revolt / revolution, more a whimper than a bang, would result and large portions of the country would go their separate ways. In the Leftist parts they would look like California or New York today. That is they'd be poorer as business fled, crime ridden, heavily taxed social-welfare states with a polyglot, diverse population often at odds with one another.
The other nations would vary. Some would be prosperous, business oriented, and relatively homogenous. For the Left these would be derided as fascist and racist regardless of their relative success. They would be exchanging population with the above Leftist nations such that those that are energetic are leaving to prosper and those coming in are in want of the freebies the socialist states offer.
Still others would be poor and agrarian or aggressively mining and collecting resources for export.
The other nations would vary. Some would be prosperous, business oriented, and relatively homogenous. For the Left these would be derided as fascist and racist regardless of their relative success. They would be exchanging population with the above Leftist nations such that those that are energetic are leaving to prosper and those coming in are in want of the freebies the socialist states offer.
Still others would be poor and agrarian or aggressively mining and collecting resources for export.
That is libertarian coffee house crap. TELL ME HOW. What SPECIFIC POLICY PROPOSALS would do that. Define minimum. For example, you have advocated for abortion bans. How does that fit into your definition of 'minimum'. How about safety net programs? Environmental laws? Child labor laws? Workplace safety laws? Try, for once in your life, to be an actual, serious, thoughtful poster, not a troll.
SmarterthanYou
rebel
we believe in two different ideologies for equal opportunity. you believe that people are incompetent and need government help. I believe that most people can pursue their own wealth, so long as they aren't hindered by unfair crony capitalism. you continually support that crony capitalism. I do not.
with all the subjects you want to hear about, I would need to craft a book the size of war and peace. that is not minimum regulations. call it libertarian coffee house crap all you like, but it will not change the fact that it's a better solution than the one you support now or advocate for.
Strawman. I believe nothing of the kind. I believe that the role of government is to provide guardrails against the greed of corporations, and to provide policies that encourage economic equality. Which is why I believe that the wage/wealth gap is an existential threat. You don't. Because you would allow it to go unchecked.
What you propose is not a solution. Because there are no specifics. Just libertarian buzzwords. I assume you aren't interested in articulating your specific positions, because that would require you to THINK. I ask too much.
T. A. Gardner
Thread Killer
The way I see this is:
The mindset of government is completely wrong. What we need is government, and particularly a bureaucratic structure that is rewarded for its minimalism and efficiency. That is, government rewards doing what needs to be done with the fewest resources, laws, and regulations possible. It punishes, harshly, empire building, producing masses of new regulations, making those regulations massive, wordy, and costly, and other forms of inefficiency. The overarching question government would ask before doing something would be, Can some other entity, organization, or body besides government do this? If the answer is 'possibly,' or 'yes,' then government doesn't do it.
In our elected leaders, they are are expected to serve not to enrich themselves, but to be temporary leaders selected by the population who will leave office to return to productive life early on. They get no retirement or other benefits from having held office. That they are to provide for themselves, just like any other citizen would.
SmarterthanYou
rebel
we already have those. The problem exists with enforcement. too many elected and appointed officials would not be able to accumulate their ill gotten wealth if they enforced those 'guardrails'.
there is zero constitutional authority to provide for such a thing. and, again, that 'gap' is there because you actually support it by electing those who lie to you and you studiously avoid acknowledging it.
Once again, the general welfare clause absolutely supports those things.
But you STILL refuse to provide a single specific policy proposal. All you seem to be capable of saying, in your limited vocabulary of clicks and grunts is 'Government bad, you stupid'. Still waiting.
SmarterthanYou
rebel
once again, Madison disagrees with you. who are you going to trust? the man that authored and explained it, or some person 200+ years later that wants to do things YOUR way?
QP!
Verified User
The question is not answerable as there is no agreement amongst everyone on the left of what those ideals are.
Just like we could not say if 'every ideal from the right was enacted' which would include murdering or pushing out of the country anyone not considered 'pure' and 'white'.
Just like we could not say if 'every ideal from the right was enacted' which would include murdering or pushing out of the country anyone not considered 'pure' and 'white'.
SmarterthanYou
rebel
Welcome to the 21st century. This is what I want my government to do. It is fully supported by the Constitution as well as over two centuries of stare decisis. Still waiting for you to do something other than tell me how dumb my ideas are. I'm waiting for you to come up with some of your own. But you can't. Your posting history is ample evidence that you don't have the intellectual chops.
SmarterthanYou
rebel
so you're stating, for the record, that you don't WANT originalism, you WANT current judges, lawyers, politicians telling you what you want to hear about what the Constitution means, as long as it's what YOU want it to mean. that about it?
For the record, your statement is a complete misrepresentation of what I said.
Anything specific, or do you want to keep talking about me?
SmarterthanYou
rebel
it is clearly not a misrepresentation. You were very clear that you want people to deviate from the author of the Constitution so they can implement what YOU want and stare decisis to keep it from changing. don't back away from it. Own it.
I think I know what I said, thanks. I said this is what I want to see my government do. I believe it is fully supported by the Constitution, and two decades of court decisions support that. But why would I listen to THEM when I can get the truth from a random dumb fuck on an internet chat board. How silly of me.
No specifics. Because you don't have a single idea. Not one. I guess you want to talk about me. I had an egg sandwich and a protein shake for breakfast. My wife and I walked the dogs, and we're heading out for lunch. Anything else you want to know?
It's not 1960 any more. Sweden has a more market driven economy than America does now.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-sweden-overcame-socialism-11547078767
Yakuda
Verified User
The "ideal" America that democrats strive for?
I haven't seen anything constructive from the leftists here that would suggest otherwise. Here's the real question though, what would a race baiting tax cheating piece of garbage like al sharpton do if supposed racism was eliminated? How would the leftists occupy their time once everyone was equally poor and miserable?