What would the ideal leftist America look like?

Concart said:
Swedens average tax rate is over 50%, sock troll.
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And everyone pays taxes including a value added tax. I can't wait for US dems to tell 50% of the American people who don't currently pay any federal income tax that they will have to start paying taxes AND a VAT LMFAO yeah right
 
Yakuda said:
And everyone pays taxes including a value added tax. I can't wait for US dems to tell 50% of the American people who don't currently pay any federal income tax that they will have to start paying taxes AND a VAT LMFAO yeah right
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Be aware he is lying about the Swedish tax rate. He simply made the figure up without bothering to check if it was even close to accurate.
 
Uncensored2008 said:
Be aware he is lying about the Swedish tax rate. He simply made the figure up without bothering to check if it was even close to accurate.
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No I understand but I've read plenty and the tax system in those countries is not a weapon used against "rich" people like it is here. Everyone has to pay taxes there unlike here in America where half the people pay no federal income tax. There is also a VAT in those countries on all purchases. It's relatively high. Democrats have opposed VATs every time they have been suggested here. All the dems see is people getting goodies and they think that will get them votes. They are idiots
 
Concart said:
That is a simplistic and almost entirely false statement. First, the United States, and ALL taxing authorities, are geographic, not societal. Second, no civilized western country has anywhere near our monstrous wage wealth gap. Why? They ALL have taxed their way to economic equality. Since that wage/wealth gap represents an existential issue in the United States, extraordinary measures are necessary to fix it. Not just a new tax policy, but a one time tax on wealth for a certain segment of the population. The economy will not survive without it. There is no solution to our current societal problem that does not involve a complete change to the tax code. Only a simpleton would make the suggestion you just made.

Understanding an appropriate tax policy requires intelligence, objectivity, and grasp of economics, and an ability to think creatively. You lack all of those things, so your opinion is as uninformed as it could possibly be. Which is why you are sold more disease and told it is the cure. Supply side economics got us into this mess, and you want more.

Cypress is correct. Single payer health care is more efficient. We have a body of evidence from every other industrialized nation, but you ignore that evidence. One of the greatest obstacles to getting single parents off the government doles is the cost of day care. Democrats want to provide free day care. You would rather cut the existing programs. Every child in this country should be able to pursue a post secondary education without a financial impediment. You oppose that. We need MORE human resources to address the immigration issues we have. The GOP has voted that down every time, most recently after Joe Biden took office and proposed a massive immigration reform bill that was passed by the House.

Your only interest seems to be in overthrowing the government and keeping 150 guns and not having to wear a mask to make your fellow citizens safer. Your arrogant ignorance is THE problem. Read a book. Find an actual news source that has some journalistic ethics. Educate yourself. You have no interest in that because you are intellectually lazy, and driven by hate and fear. It's a shame. I've been close to giving up, because there is objectively very little in it for me to make sure you and your ilk have no power. I am a rich white guy. But I actually do care. Empathy is an important quality. You have none.
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I don't disagree with a lot of your post. Tax increases used for serving our people with child care subsidation (not free as I do not believe anything should be free) is a good thing, IMO. Help for college should be more streamlined, easier to get and pay back, but not "free," IMO. Addressing the immigration issue needs/has to be done whether through more human resources or more attention paid to those seeking legal entry.

What I take a bit of issue with the idea, insinuation or whatever that there should somehow be "economic equality." A lessening of the wealth gap is a good thing, but "equality" is a word I wouldn't use. When you use that word, to me anyway, you are saying that hard work, self denial, etc are things that are no longer rewarded. Correct me if I am not understanding the use of this term.
 
leaningright said:
I don't disagree with a lot of your post. Tax increases used for serving our people with child care subsidation (not free as I do not believe anything should be free) is a good thing, IMO. Help for college should be more streamlined, easier to get and pay back, but not "free," IMO. Addressing the immigration issue needs/has to be done whether through more human resources or more attention paid to those seeking legal entry.

What I take a bit of issue with the idea, insinuation or whatever that there should somehow be "economic equality." A lessening of the wealth gap is a good thing, but "equality" is a word I wouldn't use. When you use that word, to me anyway, you are saying that hard work, self denial, etc are things that are no longer rewarded. Correct me if I am not understanding the use of this term.
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So why not lower taxes so people have more money in their pockets to do with as they see fit? The federal govt does far more than it has legitimate authority to do. All the money taken in taxes to do things they have no business dealing with could go back to taxpayers. The cost of going to college EXPLODED when govt got into the business of student loans. Moronic and no authority. Pay for college like everything else. Make colleges compete for students.
 
Yakuda said:
So why not lower taxes so people have more money in their pockets to do with as they see fit?
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Because when that happens, those people end up going into debt to afford things like health care and education, which get cut or do not get funding increases, thus forcing the institution to do more with less, harming its effectiveness while also forcing those who use those systems to spend more out of pocket.

The personal savings rate was at its highest when the top tax rate was 90%:

el2011-01-2.png


Someone who portends to only care about data and facts should have no problem accepting the premise of these.
 
Yakuda said:
All the money taken in taxes to do things they have no business dealing with could go back to taxpayers.
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What things does the government have no business doing, in your world?


The cost of going to college EXPLODED when govt got into the business of student loans.
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No, because there were student loans all throughout the 80's and 90's, and tuition was (mostly) normal.


Moronic and no authority. Pay for college like everything else. Make colleges compete for students.
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In order for American workers and innovators to compete on a global level, we need to meet global standards, and we need to meet them as a nation.

They don't teach a different kind of Algebra in Texas than they do in Ohio.
 
Cypress said:
I didn't say anything about socialism.

I said we should emulate the Scandinavian socioeconomic model. I don't care what you want to call it
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I reiterate;

{If Sanders and Ocasio‐​Cortez really want to turn America into Sweden, what would that look like? For the United States, it would mean, for example, more free trade and a more deregulated product market, no Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, and the abolition of occupational licensing and minimum wage laws. The United States would also have to abolish taxes on property, gifts, and inheritance. And even after the recent tax cut, America would still have to slightly reduce its corporate tax. Americans would need to reform Social Security from defined benefits to defined contributions and introduce private accounts. They would also need to adopt a comprehensive school voucher system where private schools get the same per‐​pupil funding as public ones.}
 
LV426 said:
What things does the government have no business doing, in your world?




No, because there were student loans all throughout the 80's and 90's, and tuition was (mostly) normal.




In order for American workers and innovators to compete on a global level, we need to meet global standards, and we need to meet them as a nation.

They don't teach a different kind of Algebra in Texas than they do in Ohio.
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College costs skyrocketed when it became a for-profit business. Brick and motor universities saw how much people would spend on schooling and jacked their prices up to match online "schools".
 
Uncensored2008 said:
I reiterate;

{If Sanders and Ocasio‐​Cortez really want to turn America into Sweden, what would that look like? For the United States, it would mean, for example, more free trade and a more deregulated product market, no Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, and the abolition of occupational licensing and minimum wage laws. The United States would also have to abolish taxes on property, gifts, and inheritance. And even after the recent tax cut, America would still have to slightly reduce its corporate tax. Americans would need to reform Social Security from defined benefits to defined contributions and introduce private accounts. They would also need to adopt a comprehensive school voucher system where private schools get the same per‐​pupil funding as public ones.}
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You have this hilarious habit of posting bullshit you clearly stole from someone else to pass off as your own as your opening salvo in the debate. But that's where it ends because you can't stand the scrutiny without declaring rather stupidly how smart you think you are.

So now I'm going to do to this imaginary conversation what I did to the last one, and tear it apart line by line.
 
Uncensored2008 said:
If Sanders and Ocasio‐​Cortez really want to turn America into Sweden, what would that look like?
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Well, for starters, it would mean equal funding of public education, no longer tying that funding to property taxes. Instead, the state would provide funding for each school so each student received an equal amount spent on them. So there would no longer be an "average" spent per student, but a fixed number instead...like they do in Sweden and France.
 
LV426 said:
You have this hilarious habit of posting bullshit you clearly stole from someone else to pass off as your own as your opening salvo in the debate. But that's where it ends because you can't stand the scrutiny without declaring rather stupidly how smart you think you are.

So now I'm going to do to this imaginary conversation what I did to the last one, and tear it apart line by line.
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I realize you're as dumb as a dogturd - but I cited that - you fucking retard.

https://www.cato.org/policy-report/january/february-2020/swedens-lessons-america
 
Uncensored2008 said:
For the United States, it would mean, for example, more free trade and a more deregulated product market, no Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, and the abolition of occupational licensing and minimum wage laws
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Er um...not exactly true.

The minimum wage is replaced with collective bargaining because 70% of workers are in unions.

Not sure what you mean by "more free trade and a more deregulated product market"; I suspect this is just something you said to try and sound smart, like when you tried to sound smart by saying your supposition is incredibly accurate when you meant assumption.

For housing, more than half of all Swedes live in Public Housing. Sweden also has a national board of Housing that freezes rents from private landlords. Also, the right to housing is guaranteed in the Swedish Constitution.
 
Uncensored2008 said:
he United States would also have to abolish taxes on property, gifts, and inheritance
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You aren't taxed on gifts up to a certain amount in the US, and neither are you taxed on inheritance up to a certain amount either.

Thanks to the Russia Tax Cut you supported, beneficiaries of inherited 401K plans have to now make minimum annual withdrawals over ten years and pay taxes on those withdrawals as if they were earned income.

That raised taxes on the middle class, all thanks to Conservatism.
 
Uncensored2008 said:
And even after the recent tax cut, America would still have to slightly reduce its corporate tax.
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America's corporate tax rate may be 21%, but it's effective tax rate is around 12%-15%.

Sweden's corporate tax rate is 20.6% but that is also its effective tax rate.
 
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