When Will We Recover From The Civil War? Now Is The Time.

Hello Dutch Uncle,

Dutch Uncle said:
On both sides. It was the times.

The first time I really started to take an interest in history was my senior year of high school. In a discussion on history and television, the teacher said "'Gunsmoke' isn't about an 19th century man in a 19th century western town. It's about a 20th century man in a 19th century western town." The point being that people tend to judge others by the current standards, not the standards of the time...hence my interest since the question "why were the standards different?" stuck in my mind.
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That's why the statues are coming down.
 
PoliTalker said:
Hello Dutch Uncle,

That's why the statues are coming down.
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Unfortunately true. Gen Xers and Millienials have little sense of history. They are also under the popular delusion that if they destroy something then it never happened and can be ignored.
 
Hello Dutch Uncle,

Dutch Uncle said:
Unfortunately true. Gen Xers and Millienials have little sense of history. They are also under the popular delusion that if they destroy something then it never happened and can be ignored.
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I don't think it's about erasing history. Those statues were not put up to prevent history from being forgotten. They were put up to rub white supremacy in the face of blacks, because the north forced the south to a) stay in the USA, and b) end slavery. Putting up statues and naming schools and roads was about all the power the south had left to control blacks. That and their hateful racism, voter suppression, redlining and other discrimination.

Those statues were put up out of spite.

They are tainted.

They need to go away.

We have books and records to preserve history.
 
PoliTalker said:
We never recovered from the Civil War.

The official war ended, and then immediately the fight went into a social struggle to repress blacks and glorify the Confederacy. That has never ended, and even though the people who began this struggle are all dead, we are still stuck with the hatred which was hatched then in an effort to justify southern slavery and the decision to launch into a totally needless, hurtful, and deadly war over nothing but stupid hatred. Racism is a stain that has marred the American cause of freedom and human rights.

Now we have our opportunity to forward our complete recovery from the Civil War.

And it came in the strangest way.

An oppressive hateful president, an insensitive cop, a black victim of police brutality.

This has become a moment.

It has become a movement. This movement has spread far beyond the American borders. There are Floyd protests all over the WORLD!

It is a chance to heal.
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I agree. The south grew up in the plantation culture and it has taken them a long time to learn what it means to be American
 
Yeah, the confederates were great soldiers and deserve honors. I think we need to add statues for Onoda, and Yokoi who we're Japanese heroes that fought against us. There were many Germans who fought well in WW2. They deserve statues. All those soldiers were trying to end the America experiment. They fought well.
 
PoliTalker said:
Hello Dutch Uncle,



I don't think it's about erasing history. Those statues were not put up to prevent history from being forgotten. They were put up to rub white supremacy in the face of blacks, because the north forced the south to a) stay in the USA, and b) end slavery. Putting up statues and naming schools and roads was about all the power the south had left to control blacks. That and their hateful racism, voter suppression, redlining and other discrimination.

Those statues were put up out of spite.

They are tainted.

They need to go away.

We have books and records to preserve history.
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Sorry dude, but you're wrong. It's erasing history. Years ago libraries first restricted then banned "Huckleberry Finn". Now they want to ban "Gone with the Wind". History pages are giving short shrift to certain topics. It's becoming "The War of 1812, then the Civil War. Slavery is wrong. Then the Spanish-American War..." Regardless if you or I agree or not, it's happening. I think, maybe in 30-40 years, more mature minds will take another look at it. As mentioned before, you don't see the Brits or Romans erasing their history. Germany bans it to an extent but remembers the bad parts as a warning. Japan has been criticized for doing to WWII what Americans are now doing to the Civil War: "It it was unpleasant but so long ago no one cares to talk about it. Moving on...."
 
Hello Dutch Uncle,

Dutch Uncle said:
Sorry dude, but you're wrong. It's erasing history. Years ago libraries first restricted then banned "Huckleberry Finn". Now they want to ban "Gone with the Wind". History pages are giving short shrift to certain topics. It's becoming "The War of 1812, then the Civil War. Slavery is wrong. Then the Spanish-American War..." Regardless if you or I agree or not, it's happening. I think, maybe in 30-40 years, more mature minds will take another look at it. As mentioned before, you don't see the Brits or Romans erasing their history. Germany bans it to an extent but remembers the bad parts as a warning. Japan has been criticized for doing to WWII what Americans are now doing to the Civil War: "It it was unpleasant but so long ago no one cares to talk about it. Moving on...."
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Those statues were put up because the still powerful slave owners of the south did not want to admit that slavery was wrong. That style of economy was wrong and it muted economic progress in the south. Those who were getting rich and powerful off of the wrong economy naturally did not want to admit it has all been a big mistake. So they made up false heroes. They thought the leaders of the rebellion were heroes when actually they were tragically mistaken, fighting for a wrong cause. Slavery from the south should have been treated like Nazis in Germany after WWII. Memorials to slaves, trials and sentencing for slave owners. They should have preserved the worst huts and accommodations, the shackles, the whips, the nooses, the stories of torture. That's what needs to be memorialized so it is never forgotten. It was wrong to make heroes out of the rebel leaders. That would be like putting up statues of Hitler, Rommel , etc in Gernmany post-war. That's how wrong it has been to glorify those who perpetrated and fought for slavery.

That big mistake has allowed racism to flourish ever since. We are still paying the cost long after all those people who could not admit their mistake are gone. They are dead, their hatred lives on. It has seriously impacted the development of our society. We would be far better off if the south had been dealt with far more effectively after the war.

Now is the time to start fixing that by making lots of changes.

Those statues have to come down. All the roads, schools, bridges, counties, towns, cities, everything named after those people needs to all get renamed.
 
Maybe there should be some kind of restitution. I am on the fence about that. My concern is that if you give a bunch of money to somebody who never had any that they don't know what to do with it and they just blow through it quickly. So maybe it should be something like low interest loans or UBI.
 
PoliTalker said:
Maybe there should be some kind of restitution. I am on the fence about that. My concern is that if you give a bunch of money to somebody who never had any that they don't know what to do with it and they just blow through it quickly. So maybe it should be something like low interest loans or UBI.
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Bullshit. None of those crying today suffered anything that those slaves did 160 years ago.
 
RB 60 said:
Bullshit. None of those crying today suffered anything that those slaves did 160 years ago.
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Victimology credits are passed down from one generation to the next...the VICTIM CULTURE CULT decided....OBEY ASSHOLE!




barf








this has been sarcasm presented by the great and wonderful Hawkeye.
 
Nordberg said:
Yeah, the confederates were great soldiers and deserve honors. I think we need to add statues for Onoda, and Yokoi who we're Japanese heroes that fought against us. There were many Germans who fought well in WW2. They deserve statues. All those soldiers were trying to end the America experiment. They fought well.
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Lots of soldiers have fought bravely and well for the most stinking causes, but I'm at a loss to see why any of them 'deserve' statues. Statues just get in the way of the traffic, and except in times like these nobody knows who the hell they represent. Blowing up Nelson in Dublin was good practice for the IRA before they got back into action in the North, but it would have been much more sensible for the Dublin authorities to spend a few quid on knocking it down. Scarcely any of the bloody things are of such a quality as to justify quarrelling about them.
 
PoliTalker said:
Hello Dutch Uncle,



Those statues were put up because the still powerful slave owners of the south did not want to admit that slavery was wrong. That style of economy was wrong and it muted economic progress in the south. Those who were getting rich and powerful off of the wrong economy naturally did not want to admit it has all been a big mistake. So they made up false heroes. They thought the leaders of the rebellion were heroes when actually they were tragically mistaken, fighting for a wrong cause. Slavery from the south should have been treated like Nazis in Germany after WWII. Memorials to slaves, trials and sentencing for slave owners. They should have preserved the worst huts and accommodations, the shackles, the whips, the nooses, the stories of torture. That's what needs to be memorialized so it is never forgotten. It was wrong to make heroes out of the rebel leaders. That would be like putting up statues of Hitler, Rommel , etc in Gernmany post-war. That's how wrong it has been to glorify those who perpetrated and fought for slavery.

That big mistake has allowed racism to flourish ever since. We are still paying the cost long after all those people who could not admit their mistake are gone. They are dead, their hatred lives on. It has seriously impacted the development of our society. We would be far better off if the south had been dealt with far more effectively after the war.

Now is the time to start fixing that by making lots of changes.

Those statues have to come down. All the roads, schools, bridges, counties, towns, cities, everything named after those people needs to all get renamed.
Click to expand...

Sorry, man, but you still don't get it. Yes, those statues were put up by people pissed off about the Civil War and a Federal government jamming specials rules down the throats of certain American citizens. So what? Now they can be used to teach the history of racism....well, we could until the Democrats destroyed them. Now what? It's like I posted: a short paragraph in a history book and then moving on to Vietnam.
 
Hello Dutch Uncle,

Dutch Uncle said:
Sorry, man, but you still don't get it. Yes, those statues were put up by people pissed off about the Civil War and a Federal government jamming specials rules down the throats of certain American citizens. So what? Now they can be used to teach the history of racism....well, we could until the Democrats destroyed them. Now what? It's like I posted: a short paragraph in a history book and then moving on to Vietnam.
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We're going to just have to agree to disagree on this one.

I am convinced it was a mistake to put up those statues, name all that stuff after rebels, and the sooner we right that wrong, the sooner we can really put the Civil War behind us.

I am curious.

Do you think we have completely recovered from the Civil War and slavery?

I do not.
 
Hello Nordberg,

Nordberg said:
Yeah, the confederates were great soldiers and deserve honors. I think we need to add statues for Onoda, and Yokoi who we're Japanese heroes that fought against us. There were many Germans who fought well in WW2. They deserve statues. All those soldiers were trying to end the America experiment. They fought well.
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Yeah. Rommel. Where's the statues of Rommel? Brilliant tactician. The Desert Fox.
 
Hello Penderyn,

Penderyn said:
Lots of soldiers have fought bravely and well for the most stinking causes, but I'm at a loss to see why any of them 'deserve' statues. Statues just get in the way of the traffic, and except in times like these nobody knows who the hell they represent. Blowing up Nelson in Dublin was good practice for the IRA before they got back into action in the North, but it would have been much more sensible for the Dublin authorities to spend a few quid on knocking it down. Scarcely any of the bloody things are of such a quality as to justify quarrelling about them.
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Did not know that happened. Very interesting. Thanks for sharing.
 
PoliTalker said:
Hello Dutch Uncle,



We're going to just have to agree to disagree on this one.

I am convinced it was a mistake to put up those statues, name all that stuff after rebels, and the sooner we right that wrong, the sooner we can really put the Civil War behind us.

I am curious.

Do you think we have completely recovered from the Civil War and slavery?

I do not.
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Go for it. Erase history and see what happens in 20-40 years. One thing I've learned is that cultures and languages change, but human nature has been the same for over 50,000 years.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Behavioral_modernity#Late_Upper_Paleolithic_Model_or_"Revolution"
 
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