When Will We Recover From The Civil War? Now Is The Time.

AssHatZombie said:
how about slaves with cotton gins. this is more of the neocon fascist delusion that progress naturally improves morality. moral problems must be addressed in an explicitly moral frame.

im tired of a this globalist libertarian horseshit.
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Cotton gins require a certain amount of skilled labor and only in limited quantities. To get that, paid labor is far better than risking expensive machinery with slave labor.

My stating this shows once more, the progression of history and technology--something I publish articles on regularly-- The reason slaves existed in most early societies is they were the most flexible, cost effective, and efficient labor force available. Horses and the use of wagons, etc., required that the invention of a efficient harness and wagon system be made. That was a long time in coming. Horses as pack animals are really no more efficient than slaves in that while each horse can carry more, they also consume more in food and require regular maintenance and grooming. They also are not nearly as flexible in the tasks that can be assigned them. So, horses were less used simply because without harnesses and wagons they were inefficient.

Anyone who thinks slavery can be ended on moral grounds alone hasn't been paying attention. Slavery still exists today and for the same reasons. It is an economically viable alternative to those practicing it. I saw the version the Arabs use throughout the Middle East today first hand. They import laborers from Pakistan, India, Indonesia, the Philippines, etc. They take these people's passports upon arrival and hold them. That means they can't leave the country. They also require an "exit visa" that costs something like 5 to 10 Dinar or so. Pay is based on performance of the full contract the laborer signed. Don't finish the contract, don't get paid. While in the country, they are kept in supervised quarters where they are fed and housed.

Abuse is not uncommon. I remember reading a case in Saudi Arabia where a rich woman pushed her maid off a third story balcony. The maid survived the fall but was badly injured. The family of the woman had the maid deported and didn't pay her because she didn't finish the contract. The woman didn't receive any legal punishment for the act. If that's not slavery, I don't know what is.
 
T. A. Gardner said:
Cotton gins require a certain amount of skilled labor and only in limited quantities. To get that, paid labor is far better than risking expensive machinery with slave labor.

My stating this shows once more, the progression of history and technology--something I publish articles on regularly-- The reason slaves existed in most early societies is they were the most flexible, cost effective, and efficient labor force available. Horses and the use of wagons, etc., required that the invention of a efficient harness and wagon system be made. That was a long time in coming. Horses as pack animals are really no more efficient than slaves in that while each horse can carry more, they also consume more in food and require regular maintenance and grooming. They also are not nearly as flexible in the tasks that can be assigned them. So, horses were less used simply because without harnesses and wagons they were inefficient.

Anyone who thinks slavery can be ended on moral grounds alone hasn't been paying attention. Slavery still exists today and for the same reasons. It is an economically viable alternative to those practicing it. I saw the version the Arabs use throughout the Middle East today first hand. They import laborers from Pakistan, India, Indonesia, the Philippines, etc. They take these people's passports upon arrival and hold them. That means they can't leave the country. They also require an "exit visa" that costs something like 5 to 10 Dinar or so. Pay is based on performance of the full contract the laborer signed. Don't finish the contract, don't get paid. While in the country, they are kept in supervised quarters where they are fed and housed.

Abuse is not uncommon. I remember reading a case in Saudi Arabia where a rich woman pushed her maid off a third story balcony. The maid survived the fall but was badly injured. The family of the woman had the maid deported and didn't pay her because she didn't finish the contract. The woman didn't receive any legal punishment for the act. If that's not slavery, I don't know what is.
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so a black couldn't use a cotton gin? racism.

you're still about the same bullshit.
 
AssHatZombie said:
so a black couldn't use a cotton gin? racism.

you're still about the same bullshit.
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A Black could if trained, and I'm sure that could have occurred. But, it still doesn't explain what a plantation / slave owner does with the other 95 slaves out of 100 when they are no longer needed. That creates a huge social problem just as the Industrial Revolution created one when the need for agricultural workers dropped to small numbers and the need for factory workers grew. That created all sorts of social problems that took several centuries to really work out.
Now we're seeing the same problem, not quite as bad but still a serious problem, transitioning from an Industrial economy to an Electronics based one. Factories no longer need masses of workers. Instead computers and industrial robots do the labor. Many of those workers are ill-prepared and ill-suited to transition to new employment in and electronics based economy. They don't have the education or skills. That's not some racist or hater thing, it's a factual observation, like it or not.

Auto factories used to be this:

Detroit%20auto%20workers.jpg


Now they are this:

Automotive-Robotics.jpg


The social upheaval of technological revolutions takes decades even centuries to sort out. It doesn't happen overnight.
 
T. A. Gardner said:
A Black could if trained, and I'm sure that could have occurred. But, it still doesn't explain what a plantation / slave owner does with the other 95 slaves out of 100 when they are no longer needed. That creates a huge social problem just as the Industrial Revolution created one when the need for agricultural workers dropped to small numbers and the need for factory workers grew. That created all sorts of social problems that took several centuries to really work out.
Now we're seeing the same problem, not quite as bad but still a serious problem, transitioning from an Industrial economy to an Electronics based one. Factories no longer need masses of workers. Instead computers and industrial robots do the labor. Many of those workers are ill-prepared and ill-suited to transition to new employment in and electronics based economy. They don't have the education or skills. That's not some racist or hater thing, it's a factual observation, like it or not.

Auto factories used to be this:

Detroit%20auto%20workers.jpg


Now they are this:

Automotive-Robotics.jpg


The social upheaval of technological revolutions takes decades even centuries to sort out. It doesn't happen overnight.
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clyde, that still doesnt mean technological innovation always comes with moral improvement. in fact, with surveillance state and 5g, its creating a turnkey solution for global tyranny. stop your embarrassing blustery bullshit.
 
Hello Dutch Uncle,

Dutch Uncle said:
Like my Presidential nominees, I seem to have a higher standard than others on this forum. :)

Like the MW definition below, I consider a battle between two generally equal opponents. It's a great struggle and either side can win although one side may have a strong advantage over the other.

Fort Sumter was more like the "Battle of Sand Creek" or the "Battle of Wounded Knee" except that it wasn't a massacre. In fact, no one was killed in the "battle".

OTOH, the reaction to being evicted by South Carolina produced a typically Yankee reaction: they attacked Virginia. You know, like after 9/11 when some idiot attacked a Sikh man on the street. Yankees have a loooooong history of massacreing Indians. When the South seceded, they treated the Southerners just like they did the Native Americans. The problem for the Yankees was that the Southern military leaders were both US military trained and fully equipped with contemporary weapons.
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And outsized egos.
 
PoliTalker said:
We never recovered from the Civil War.

The official war ended, and then immediately the fight went into a social struggle to repress blacks and glorify the Confederacy. That has never ended, and even though the people who began this struggle are all dead, we are still stuck with the hatred which was hatched then in an effort to justify southern slavery and the decision to launch into a totally needless, hurtful, and deadly war over nothing but stupid hatred. Racism is a stain that has marred the American cause of freedom and human rights.

Now we have our opportunity to forward our complete recovery from the Civil War.

And it came in the strangest way.

An oppressive hateful president, an insensitive cop, a black victim of police brutality.

This has become a moment.

It has become a movement. This movement has spread far beyond the American borders. There are Floyd protests all over the WORLD!

It is a chance to heal.
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As long as we have the social media to use as the battleground. The Civil War will never end. We went from the actual battlefield in Gettysburg to Twitter and Facebook. There are just so many folks that really don't want to see "Unity". There are some who rather use the platforms as a way to "fight their endless battles". And there are a few that will never stop - no matter how mad the other side gets. It has been their main M.O.
 
Hello and welcome Ichigo2020,

I am glad you found us. Whenever a newcomer arrives I normally like to acquaint them with my personal self-moderation. My rules are more strict than the site rules, but should be easily acceptable to any reasonable person. Is this acceptable to you:

Personal Ignore Policy PIP: I like civil discourse. I will give you all the respect in the world if you respect me. Mouth off to me, or express overt racism, you will be PERMANENTLY Ignore Listed. Zero tolerance. No exceptions. I'll never read a word you write, even if quoted by another, nor respond to you, nor participate in your threads. ... Ignore the shallow. Cherish the thoughtful. Long Live Civil Discourse, Mutual Respect, and Good Debate! ps: Feel free to adopt my PIP. It works well.

If you are good with that, right on. If not then we won't be talking long. Hopefully this is acceptable and we can have many great discussions.

Ichigo2020 said:
As long as we have the social media to use as the battleground. The Civil War will never end. We went from the actual battlefield in Gettysburg to Twitter and Facebook. There are just so many folks that really don't want to see "Unity". There are some who rather use the platforms as a way to "fight their endless battles". And there are a few that will never stop - no matter how mad the other side gets. It has been their main M.O.
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True, there will always be some who will never let go. What we need to do as a nation is make that such a small number that it is essentially meaningless. That becomes our challenge. We can't get there without proper education. Improving our failing education system has to be a part of the solution.
 
PoliTalker said:
Hello and welcome Ichigo2020,

I am glad you found us. Whenever a newcomer arrives I normally like to acquaint them with my personal self-moderation. My rules are more strict than the site rules, but should be easily acceptable to any reasonable person. Is this acceptable to you:

Personal Ignore Policy PIP: I like civil discourse. I will give you all the respect in the world if you respect me. Mouth off to me, or express overt racism, you will be PERMANENTLY Ignore Listed. Zero tolerance. No exceptions. I'll never read a word you write, even if quoted by another, nor respond to you, nor participate in your threads. ... Ignore the shallow. Cherish the thoughtful. Long Live Civil Discourse, Mutual Respect, and Good Debate! ps: Feel free to adopt my PIP. It works well.

If you are good with that, right on. If not then we won't be talking long. Hopefully this is acceptable and we can have many great discussions.



True, there will always be some who will never let go. What we need to do as a nation is make that such a small number that it is essentially meaningless. That becomes our challenge. We can't get there without proper education. Improving our failing education system has to be a part of the solution.
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That is fair enough. I like having decent discussions. I do not like to be provoked by someone who just want to have any irrational discussions. Meaning, instigate fights.
And thank you for the welcome!
 
Hello Ichigo2020,

Ichigo2020 said:
That is fair enough. I like having decent discussions. I do not like to be provoked by someone who just want to have any irrational discussions. Meaning, instigate fights.
And thank you for the welcome!
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Excellent. Glad to hear it. I like polite discussions that challenge my knowledge and cause me to learn new things.
 
Hola Ichigo. ;)

Leftists/Communists bring up the Civil War for one reason and 1 reason only: To sow discontent and division to divide and conquer.

It's really quite simple. :)

PS: You can guess who I am by my signature. :laugh:
 
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Ichigo2020 said:
That is fair enough. I like having decent discussions. I do not like to be provoked by someone who just want to have any irrational discussions. Meaning, instigate fights.
And thank you for the welcome!
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That's a very polite description of an internet troll.

Oddly enough, guess which partisan side loves to use the Trollface and Pepe the Frog symbols the most?
 
PoliTalker said:
Hello Dutch Uncle,

And outsized egos.
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On both sides. It was the times.

The first time I really started to take an interest in history was my senior year of high school. In a discussion on history and television, the teacher said "'Gunsmoke' isn't about an 19th century man in a 19th century western town. It's about a 20th century man in a 19th century western town." The point being that people tend to judge others by the current standards, not the standards of the time...hence my interest since the question "why were the standards different?" stuck in my mind.
 
PoliTalker said:
Hello Penderyn,



Slowly, American history is replacing southern history in the American south. They are just having a very hard time admitting that slavery and the confederacy were huge mistakes. We have to help them and let them know it is OK to let go of that. It is OK to admit your ancestors made terrible mistakes. That doesn't make you any less of a person. There is so much ego involved in this.
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you're an idiot. you believe that your ill informed charicatures represent reality. they don't.
 
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