Hard not to do a great job compared to trump. But, I am sure you will have a huge number of excuses for trump's past and future failure.
Who is Trump Talking About?
- Thread starter IBDaMann
- Start date
AProudLefty
The remora of JPP
Irony!
IBDaMann
Well-known member
Already you are pivoting again?
Correct. There is no Hamas in this equation. Al Qassam carried out Iran's attack on Israel. Hamas didn't learn of the attack until it happened.
It was Iran, in partnership with Qatar, who funded, planned and authorized Al Qassam's attack on Israel. Al Qassam is not affiliated with Hamas, and Hamas was not involved in the attack.
ZenMode
Well-known member
Right... so, your beliefs are wrong.
IBDaMann
Well-known member
That's what happened.
IBDaMann
Well-known member
Sure. Japan's surrender to the US. Now Japan owns the world.
IBDaMann
Well-known member
Good luck rebutting what actually happened.
ZenMode
Well-known member
We both saw the same events play out. The difference is that based on the cause of those actions. You claim that Hamas had no idea 10/7 was happening until it started and that Sinwar had no part in orchestrating those events. What is that claim based on?
IBDaMann
Well-known member
I'm not convinced that's the case. It would appear that you haven't been paying attention.
I'm pointing this out, yes. Iran does not divulge its plans to anyone, especially not to Hamas, for OPSEC reasons mostly.
I make no claims about Sinwar as one individual.
So, on what are your denials based?
ZenMode
Well-known member
You have previously stated that cinnamar was not the mastermind behind October 7th. What then do you believe is his role?
"So, on what are your denials based?"
So, on what are your claims based?
IBDaMann
Well-known member
I did not state that. I specifically made no statements about any specific individuals.
Tobytone
Verified User
I say you have things backwards, you say I do.
Using the term "fallacy" might seem like an easy dismissal, but it doesn't engage with the substance of the argument. It suggests an attempt to critique motives but lacks depth. To clarify, my stance isn't rooted in racial prejudice or an unconditional love for Israel at the expense of others. It's straightforward:
I choose to support democratic systems over authoritarian regimes. Among Israel's neighbors, which country truly embraces freedom? Which of these nations fosters an environment where people of all races and religions can coexist peacefully? Israel is encircled by regimes that control their populations through intimidation and force.
Moreover, nearly all of Israel's neighbors have publicly advocated for the eradication of the Jewish state and its people - an echo of genocidal intentions seen throughout history. My inclination to trust Israel more than its adversaries is based on numerous factors, including these neighbors' open hostility not just towards Israel, but also towards America and anyone who doesn't adhere to their particular, exclusive interpretation of faith. This isn't about choosing sides out of bias; it's about recognizing where the threats to freedom and peace originate.
My view, certainly propaganda
I'm sure you could find many supporting stories backing up your claim. I say propaganda, you're not getting the truth from politically motivated reports. You say, bullshit
Of course, when put that way, I must come off as the villain. But for Gazans to truly move forward, the first step should be ceasing to indoctrinate children with hatred and violence towards Jewish people. I've seen the educational materials firsthand - textbooks, and even Al-Aqsa TV, which glorifies martyrdom and incites attacks against Jews, down to cartoons aimed at the youngest audiences. You'll probably retort with "bullshit," but I assure you, it's not; I've witnessed it. And so, back and forth we go.
When you consider the situation, they keep discovering rockets, suicide bombs, and the like. Revisit the neighbor analogy I mentioned earlier. I would hope to have total superiority in such a way that I wouldn't lose a single family member while neutralizing all threats from their side. Remember, the scenario posits my neighbor has explicitly threatened to murder my family in a brutal, torturous manner, including raping my daughter and beheading my loved ones in front of me - acts we saw on October 7th. I'd be both naive and irresponsible not to do everything in my power to protect my family and eliminate the threats permanently. The distinction here is, I wouldn't resort to torture, rape, or beheading; a bullet in the head would suffice for me.
Yes, if they're part of the 'family' indoctrinated and trained to kill my family. For instance, if "daddy murderer" has already killed my wife, it would be wise to deal with him and his entire family, even if they haven't yet acted. They've been taught and trained to kill my family, so I'd be both naive and foolish not to neutralize the threat as quickly as possible.
Again, your sources are propaganda, there were many factions that attacked on or before the 7th. Here are a few: Hamas, Hezbollah, PIJ, PFLP, AAMB, Lion's Den. Your statement about the 2nd Nakba is unfounded. You say: no yours are
This is not the position of the Israeli government, never been stated. You might have article that claim Israeli leadership has made comments. You can't show me direct quotes from credible sources. You might say you have seen the articles, I'll say propaganda.
I'll say show me proof, that's bullshit, without credible proof you're again a victim of propaganda. You might have an article that make the claim. and say it credible. I'll say bullshit
Three questions:
Saying it's a "terrible analogy" might be an understatement, but I figured you'd understand that my house and family symbolize a country. In that scenario, it's my duty to safeguard my family and neutralize the threat - I'd be entirely justified. Your analogy then veers into... well, I'm not sure where. If this malevolent, homicidal "guy" (Country) decimated my family (Country), one would hope other nations would see the peril in allowing such a murderous state to persist and would act to eliminate it before it targets others. Ignoring the evil "family" would only invite further disaster.
Throwing 'fallacy' into the mix doesn't actually contribute anything substantial. It might allude to some underlying motives, but it's fundamentally empty. To set the record straight, I'm not some racist who idolizes Israel while despising everyone else. It's really not that complicated: I'm in favor of democracies over oppressive dictatorships. Which of Israel's neighboring 'innocent' countries is truly free? Do any of these nations actually champion freedom, or permit people of all races and religions to live in peace within their borders? Israel is encircled by autocrats who rule through coercion and terror. Most of Israel's neighbors are vocal about their desire to wipe out an entire ethnic group - where have we seen that in history? There are countless reasons why I lean more towards trusting Israel than its adversaries. After all, these adversaries are not subtle about their wish to see every American dead, along with anyone who doesn't conform to their narrow, intolerant religious views.
If you're well-versed in the Geneva Convention, you'd understand that Israel isn't breaching the rules since they're targeting military objectives while taking steps to reduce collateral damage and issuing warnings to civilians. Unfortunately, Hamas employs human shields. You might dismiss this as "bullshit," but I'd argue you're falling for propaganda.
I say I'm shocked that you fall for what is clearly propaganda that's so obvious to me and so many others. You say no, you are brainwashed with propaganda.
The fact is we agree on many things, but this one, we're miles apart and not likely to reach consensus anytime soon. I understand that individual thinkers will nearly always have differing opinions. I don't harbor hate and can still manage to focus on where there is agreement. It's the best way to move forward with the hope of more agreement in the future. I hope you hold a similar point of view regarding my last point. Feel free to respond with any clarifications or with more areas of disagreement. I'm not sure what if anything it will accomplish. Regardless, I'm at least pleased that you refrained from the usual plethora of insults that normally comes from those I disagree with on this subject.
Tobytone
Verified User
Ok, little problem with that assessment. First, what papers are you reading? 2nd, as my dear old mother used to say, did you get up on the wrong side of bed today? 3rd, you can't own the world if someone could crush you with one hand if they choose. And finally, Of course, we don't assert violent dominance to steal land and riches, but if we weren't so nice we would have already completely smashed all other nations into submission with brutal and devastating force. That is, until recently, with the stupidity of our leaders letting so much of our capabilities deteriorate and because of a lack of leadership our recruitment numbers are far too low.
ZenMode
Well-known member
You did make claims about Sinwar here, here, here and here.
"So, on what are your denials based?"
So, on what are your claims based?
As was the case in October, you make claims and provide no basis for them. Not accepting unsupported claims, which is all I'm doing, isn't denial. Denial would be believing one thing despite evidence to the contrary. The fact that you have once again declined to provide evidence for your multiple claims, means you once again have no support for your claims and are, therefore, wasting my time.
IBDaMann
Well-known member
It's not an assessment.
Why don't you post a few images of these "Hamas" fighters about which you and Team Israel speak so frequently. Nobody ever does despite my repeated requests, almost as if they don't actually exist.
IBDaMann
Well-known member
You're right. I did make mention and I shouldn't have because I can't speak to what specific dead individuals knew or didn't know. Remove Sinwar from my comments. His mention is immaterial.
As was the case in October, you make claims and provide no basis for them. You can start by posting some images of these supposed "Hamas" fighters.
Tobytone
Verified User
Here we go again, "IT'S NOT AN ASSESSMENT." Oh, right, because calling it your "assessment" would imply some level of objectivity. Instead, let's call it what it is: a twisted view of reality, sculpted by a steady diet of hate and propaganda. I've tried to keep the insults to a minimum, thinking we could leave it at agreeing to disagree and move on to fight against the real drones out there. But apparently, I was wrong. Your little comment here just adds more evidence that you're stuck on hate.
The high people get from spewing hate fades pretty quickly once they stop. It keeps you coming back for more, sooner each time, like an addiction to heroin. You must have been running low, and I'm guessing you got bored ranting at the other hundred people on your favorite thread. So, you came knocking, looking for another fix. Not interested. This will be your last dose from me.
When your argument is based on hate and propaganda, I don't stand a chance, and I'm fine with that. All I can tell you is to think about how left-wing drones get that way. You might just see that you're a victim of the same manipulation. You could fix it, if you've got the guts.
IBDaMann
Well-known member
Here we go again ... trying to distract attention away from you not posting any images of your "Hamas" fighters ... because you know they don't exist.
Well, I noticed. I'm going to ask you to try again. Please pose your favorite four images of "Hamas" fighters ... or extend to me the courtesy of admitting that you have no reason for suspecting that there ever were any such "Hamas" fighters beyond being ordered to believe everything that Israel instructs you to believe, and you OBEYING. Please, one or the other.
Let's do that. Your twisted view of reality has you believing in ghosts, goblins and invisible Hamas fighters ... because you were told to believe such. I'm not the one claiming any such Hamas fighters; you are. That's a pretty twisted view of reality, yes. You have no idea what to do when someone asks you to post a few images.
Ghosts and goblins. Twisted view of reality.
This is always wise to do when you are on the defensive in a hole that you dug for yourself in the corner into which you backed yourself.
You have absolutely no rational basis for the bogus beliefs you have been ordered to regurgitate.
You are the one who is dog-piling on the HATRED of Arabs ... because of the Israeli disinformation that you have swallowed.
I wouldn't know, but I'll take you on your word.
So this is your preferred form of cop-out. Fine. How many Gazans were you hoping bit the dust before any one-sided cease-fire takes effect?
That is your argument in its entirety.
Tell me something I didn't know.
So why would you want to become one?
I'm just reading from the Geneva Conventions. You, on the other hand, are allowing yourself to be bent over furniture and reamed with disinformation, and subsequently OBEYING.
One more time:
My authoritative sources:
- Geneva Convention Relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War
- Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide
- The furniture over which you were bent and reamed with standard disinformation
No images of Hamas fighters. Refusal to face authoritative sources. I think it's pretty clear how your furniture is being used.
Tobytone
Verified User
Sorry, I warned you. Hate to see anyone go through all that for nothing. Let it be known for anyone reading this that I've made my stance crystal clear in previous comments, and let him know any further attempts for him to get his hate fix from me would be fruitless. I don't know what he's blabbering about now, but I guarantee it's wouldn't do jack to persuade me. I'll copy and paste this message every single time he 'quotes' me on this subject.
IBDaMann
Well-known member
... or you never did; one of those. I notice that you couldn't bring yourself to mention your stance here either. Also, conspicuously absent are any images of your Hamas fighters.
You have no position of which you aren't completely ashamed, you can't provide any images of your imaginary Hamas fighters, and you are relegated to flailing as a destraction.
You have some copy-pasting to do.