Why is the stars and bars flag considered a racist symbol?

ThatOwlWoman said:
I image that if the media hadn't focused so much on Kaep -- and if his team hadn't fired him -- the whole kerfluffle would have died a swift death.

That being said, it is not the media that turned the Confederate flag into a symbol of racism. As several ppl have pointed out in this thread, that would be the white supremacists, the KKK, and the American Nazis. As for the rest of us citizens, ignoring those displaying racism and symbols of racism enables them. Ignoring them won't make them go away. Holding them up to public scorn works though. Notice how upset some here get, for instance, when told that they are racist. Even those who are proud bigots don't want the label because of the scorn and shame involved.

I'm okay with our Southern friends flying their stars-and-bars.... they'll soon find out that that "free speech" comes with consequences.
Click to expand...

While I admit the confederate flag is now seen as a hate symbol, I see it differently. If the media hadn't focused so much attention to these racist groups and their use of the Stars and Bars. It would never have become the issue it has.


Remember Ruby Ridge in 1992? No one had heard of Randy Weaver and Kevin Harris, simply because the media wasn't interested until the government siege. Then it became front page news for months.

Then there was the Aryan Nations, a racist group that only got media attention when a member was arrested. Then the were the Branch Davidians, that few had heard of till the siege by the government.


Like mass shootings if the media would report it and not give every detail who what and when I believe there would be less of it. I may be wrong but that is my opinion.
 
Eagle-Eye said:
Like mass shootings if the media would report it and not give every detail who what and when I believe there would be less of it. I may be wrong but that is my opinion.
Click to expand...

Which of course you're more than entitled to.

As for me, I want the Fourth Estate to continue to report on what is going on in the world and in our nation -- the good, the bad, the ugly. The founding fathers knew that the an informed citizenry is vital to a free nation, and enshrined that in the First Amendment.
 
ThatOwlWoman said:
Which of course you're more than entitled to.

As for me, I want the Fourth Estate to continue to report on what is going on in the world and in our nation -- the good, the bad, the ugly. The founding fathers knew that the an informed citizenry is vital to a free nation, and enshrined that in the First Amendment.
Click to expand...

I didn't say not report the news. How does it add to the story when the media reports on say a mass shooting and gives the shooters name and life history? All they are doing is give the perp his 15 minutes of fame. Which motivates another sick SOB to copycat so he/she can get their 15 minutes of fame.


Here is how I would report the Walmart shooting.

Mass shooting at Walmart store in X city X state.
A lone gunman entered a Walmart armed with (type weapon used) and started firing at customers and employees killing 10 and wounding 15, and was killed by police in a shoot out. The shooter was confirmed to be an ex-employee who had been fired recently.
Click to expand...


The above gives you all the facts you require without giving the shooter any credit. That is called responsible reporting.
 
Eagle-Eye said:
I didn't say not report the news. How does it add to the story when the media reports on say a mass shooting and gives the shooters name and life history? All they are doing is give the perp his 15 minutes of fame. Which motivates another sick SOB to copycat so he/she can get their 15 minutes of fame.
Here is how I would report the Walmart shooting.
The above gives you all the facts you require without giving the shooter any credit. That is called responsible reporting.
Click to expand...

How do you feel about the follow-up news reports that show the victims' photos and names and a bit about them?

Personally, I think the media should show the uncensored carnage. Showing photos of the victims in happy smiling shots isn't nearly as emotionally-wrenching as showing them in pools of blood and chunks of flesh and brain.
 
Eagle-Eye said:
While I agree that they use those flags to intimidate people. By the same token by reacting with hatred toward the inanimate object you are doing what they want. If the media and people ignored the flags the racist groups would look for something else. When the KKK used the cross to intimidate black people those people took their anger out on the racist not the cross. Quite frankly I just think this is nothing but SJWs looking for a cause and the confederacy is that cause. Oh the white supremist use the flags but as I said if people didn't react to the symbols then they become worthless and the groups will find something else.

Maybe because I spent so much time in the military and race relations in my community are very good I see things differently than you. I learned early in my career that no matter the ethnic background or skin color we all bleed red, making us all the same.
Click to expand...

Not telling racists that they are idiots does not make them go away or "better" in some way, nor does it make me "better". Telling racists that I think they should hide their stupid in a closet can...

I choose to act in the hopes of a better future where idiots, at the very least, hide their stupid in the closet.
 
ThatOwlWoman said:
I'm happily surprised that you see desecration of our flag as a rightful form of protest; most conservatives cannot see that -- even though the USSCt has ruled that it is protected speech.

Of course a protest would be pointless if it did not cause comment, unrest, thought, and even outrage -- which is why flag-desecration is sometimes used by protesters to get attention and make a point. Do you think if the media didn't cover them, and the rest of us ignored them, they'd find some other way to spark comment, unrest, thought, and outrage?
Click to expand...

Obviously you have no problem burning the first amendment right to protest
 
Damocles said:
Not telling racists that they are idiots does not make them go away or "better" in some way, nor does it make me "better". Telling racists that I think they should hide their stupid in a closet can...

I choose to act in the hopes of a better future where idiots, at the very least, hide their stupid in the closet.
Click to expand...

Sadly Damo there will always be racists and I would rather they be in the open than hiding their racism. An unknown racist in a position of authority can and often does create troubles. Take the racist cop that hid from view shot a black kid and got away with it till his racism was known.
 
ThatOwlWoman said:
How do you feel about the follow-up news reports that show the victims' photos and names and a bit about them?

Personally, I think the media should show the uncensored carnage. Showing photos of the victims in happy smiling shots isn't nearly as emotionally-wrenching as showing them in pools of blood and chunks of flesh and brain.
Click to expand...

Showing the victims is a way to pay tribute to them. Showing the carnage I feel would be a burden on the family members. Just think how you would feel seeing your child or spouse with their brains blown out and blood everywhere? No I don't think that is a good idea. It could contribute to PTSD among viewers. Seeing your friends killed is a reason GI's suffer from PTSD so often.
 
Damocles said:
Not telling racists that they are idiots does not make them go away or "better" in some way, nor does it make me "better". Telling racists that I think they should hide their stupid in a closet can...

I choose to act in the hopes of a better future where idiots, at the very least, hide their stupid in the closet.
Click to expand...

I would much rather them not hide it. During the Bush administration I was often told there was no racism left in America, I think the trumpet ministration gave them mission to open up about it. Now we know the truth.
 
ThatOwlWoman said:
You defeated your own argument. Yes, the meaning of symbols can change over time. That is what has happened with the Confederate flag. Now it is seen as a symbol of racism.
Click to expand...

Remember what I said in the beginning? It's seen as a racist symbol because the media decided to make it one. So yes, now because most people think it's racist, it's become a racist symbol

The desire to maintain whites’ dominant position in the racial hierarchy of the United States was at the root of the rediscovery of Confederate symbols."
Click to expand...

No, the revival of Confederate symbols was about states' rights and segregation. It wasn't about Whites wanting to remain at the top of some racial hierarchy. It was about Whites wanting to be left alone by the federal government so that they could have their own spaces.
 
StoneByStone said:
Remember what I said in the beginning? It's seen as a racist symbol because the media decided to make it one. So yes, now because most people think it's racist, it's become a racist symbol
Click to expand...

Wrong. It was largely ignored until racist groups in the 1940s revived it.

No, the revival of Confederate symbols was about states' rights and segregation. It wasn't about Whites wanting to remain at the top of some racial hierarchy. It was about Whites wanting to be left alone by the federal government so that they could have their own spaces.
Click to expand...

The only "right" they were concerned about was the desire to remain segregated.

"Southern historian Gordon Rhea further wrote in 2011 that:

"It is no accident that Confederate symbols have been the mainstay of white supremacist organizations, from the Ku Klux Klan to the skinheads. They did not appropriate the Confederate battle flag simply because it was pretty. They picked it because it was the flag of a nation dedicated to their ideals: 'that the negro is not equal to the white man'. The Confederate flag, we are told, represents heritage, not hate. But why should we celebrate a heritage grounded in hate, a heritage whose self-avowed reason for existence was the exploitation and debasement of a sizeable segment of its population?"

https://web.archive.org/web/2011032.../civil-war-overview/why-non-slaveholding.html
 
ThatOwlWoman said:
Wrong. It was largely ignored until racist groups in the 1940s revived it.
Click to expand...

They weren't seen as racist at the time. And either way, it's besides the point. As time went on, the stars and bars just became a symbol of the South. It was until rather recently that the media decided to make it about racism or slavery or whatever.

The only "right" they were concerned about was the desire to remain segregated.
Click to expand...

Even if that was the only right they cared about, it would still not be racist.

"Southern historian Gordon Rhea further wrote in 2011 that:

"It is no accident that Confederate symbols have been the mainstay of white supremacist organizations, from the Ku Klux Klan to the skinheads. They did not appropriate the Confederate battle flag simply because it was pretty. They picked it because it was the flag of a nation dedicated to their ideals: 'that the negro is not equal to the white man'. The Confederate flag, we are told, represents heritage, not hate. But why should we celebrate a heritage grounded in hate, a heritage whose self-avowed reason for existence was the exploitation and debasement of a sizeable segment of its population?"
Click to expand...

First of all, there are no "White Supremacist" organizations in the Western world. There are White Separatists, which the media calls "supremacist," because the media is anti-white.
Secondly, the reason these groups like the Confederate flag is because, to them, it represents states' rights and racial separation. Not White Supremacy.
And finally, these people are a tiny minority. To most people who use the flag, it's to represent the South. But as I said, that's changing now, because (((the media))) has decided to make it racist.
 
StoneByStone said:
They weren't seen as racist at the time. And either way, it's besides the point. As time went on, the stars and bars just became a symbol of the South. It was until rather recently that the media decided to make it about racism or slavery or whatever.
Click to expand...

Bullshit.

Even if that was the only right they cared about, it would still not be racist.
Click to expand...

Bullshit.

First of all, there are no "White Supremacist" organizations in the Western world. There are White Separatists, which the media calls "supremacist," because the media is anti-white.
Click to expand...

Bullshit.

Secondly, the reason these groups like the Confederate flag is because, to them, it represents states' rights and racial separation. Not White Supremacy.
Click to expand...

Bullshit. There is no difference between white supremacy and "racial separation." The latter is the result of the first.

And finally, these people are a tiny minority. To most people who use the flag, it's to represent the South. But as I said, that's changing now, because (((the media))) has decided to make it racist.
Click to expand...

Bullshit.

Welp, I'm done with your insanity and virulent racism. Although you are unfailingly civil, you're now on my ignore list which includes the worst racists of JPP. Enjoy their company, and good-bye.
 
ThatOwlWoman said:
Bullshit.



Bullshit.



Bullshit.



Bullshit. There is no difference between white supremacy and "racial separation." The latter is the result of the first.



Bullshit.

Welp, I'm done with your insanity and virulent racism. Although you are unfailingly civil, you're now on my ignore list which includes the worst racists of JPP. Enjoy their company, and good-bye.
Click to expand...

I'm honestly disappointed that you can't let yourself be challenged.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top