Why It Is So Important To Be Nice And Cordial In Your Posting

Hello montgomery,

montgomery said:
It's a great idea to have an open discussion on the rules of the forum, but 'nice' isn't a part of it. Being 'nice' isn't compatible with a political view and no matter whether a person stays away from obvious insults of the other side's politics, it's still not going to be viewed by the other side as 'nice'.

It takes a very aware moderator to be able to moderate a forum fairly and successfully. I think one of the best ways for a mod to do that is to be proactive on a thread such as this. It's not the rules that cause problems, it's unjust and unfair interpretation of the rules.

Having said that, I have no idea yet on how the moderators of this forum are performing, but it usually doesn't take long to find out.
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Well, I presume Quetzalcoatal gave you the usual "Don't F up!" That's pretty standard, and it let's you know they are watching.

There is no rule disagreement here. This thread is in conformance with the rules. I've been through them. Part of the beauty of having few rules is that along with the ones who go wild, the ones who prefer more civility are completely within the rules as well.

I don't want to change the rules.

The best situation would be for people to self-moderate, and to self-improve their treatment of others as well as their own image.

Each of us has ultimate control over how we come across in this place.

I happened to take a logical approach, decided how I wanted to be, and strove to achieve that. It's a never ending quest for self-improvement.

When first I began posting I thought I had to be provocative to get results. I have since transcended out of that. I now think pertinent is a better goal.
 
Hello evince,

evince said:
You would get the same discussion with me sitting on my couch and sipping a beer


all my good friends cuss up a storm


most people younger than me do too


pretending that dirty words don't exist is silly
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Your circle of friends is not representative of society. It's fine if you want to talk like that with your friends. Cultured people with more class don't prefer to do that.

Reminds me of the wait staff in a fine restaurant.

In the kitchen there is one language. Out on the floor there is another.

I would rather this place be like out on the floor. I think a lot of people would like that. And I think this place would experience a huge upswing in activity if we chilled out on the trash talk. It really turns a lot of people off, so they simply don't participate. Look at the master list of posters who came, made a few posts and then left. Why do you think they did that? Actually most of the names of 'posters' here are people who came and decided for whatever reason this place is not for them. The majority of the list by far is like that. A few posts and gone. Look at all the 'posters' who have made 8 posts in 8 months. Or 12 posts in 12 years. This site is really being kind of dishonest to act like these people are participants. There are really a lot fewer active posters than the master list purports to represent.

Maybe all that trash talk is having an effect after all.
 
PoliTalker said:
Sorry 'bout the lectures. Hey. We all have to put up with nuisance posts we don't appreciate much. And we agree on so much really important stuff that's much bigger than manners.

I appreciate that you tone it down for me. I'm glad to be able to hear your positions on social issues, Frank.
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We're okay, Poli.

I like to take an iconoclastic position as often as possible. Sometimes I argue positions I don't really have my heart into. It instructs me about "seeing the other side" so to speak.

I'm a golfer. My group is made up of maybe 10 guys who play various foursomes. Gotta say that most of our outings are like a bunch of drunken sailors. The "F" bomb is used often...and in clever turns of phrase and parts of speech.

I like this place the way it is. I understand your motivation...but I don't want this place to become another of the kind so many have become...with strict moderation of language.
 
Hello Frank,

Frank Apisa said:
The site is okay. I think enough of it to donate to it...something I have not done in some other places.

But if "nice" or "polite" are important ingredients to a person...that person is a jerk to come here. This is NOT a place that places a high premium on "nice" or "polite." In fact, it should be obvious to anyone here for over a week...that the norms are skewed toward crude and insulting.

Ya don't always have to do it...and you can be subtle in doing it...

...but "nice and polite" are not big commodities here.
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Nothing about the rules of the site says it will be mean or nice. It is left up to the participants. So I am expressing my favor for the effectiveness of nice.
 
Hello Nordberg,

Nordberg said:
In a sense. Michelle was one of the big reasons the Dems lost. Being polite took Hillary and the Dems out of the battle. Trump determined the level of discourse. This was the lowest level presidential campaign in our lives. Hillary was still acting as we used to .Trump threw all the rules out and used insult, slurs, lies and name calling. It is possible, if Daffy wins,in 2020, we may never go back to debates based on information and parliamentary rules.
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I know it looks like it's headed that way. I am holding out hope that it is just a phase and we will churn through it. I just have a hard time believing at a basic level that crudeness is what most people really want. I think the internet has made it impossible to control what kids see, and kids think it is very cool to cuss. That immature adults pick up on this and think that makes it OK? Just because it is so widespread? No. I don't think that makes it OK. That's just monkey see monkey do.

I'll remain a voice for civility.
 
Hello evince,

evince said:
It was actually the Russian and republican party cheating on elections

HILARY WON


Americans don't want a leader who allows themselves to be walked on by evil people


they know those "leaders" will allow evil to walk on them too


I fight

I don't hold back the weapons available to me


Americans cuss

they always have

and they always will

cussing its self is an act of determined freedom


like Lenny Bruce once told the courts "don't take my words from me"

People would throng to see him and paid money to listen to his "words"


talking nice wont make nice guys out of evil men
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There are so many various words. Discussions are boring when the same 7 meaningless words keep clogging them up.
 
Hello Frank,

Frank Apisa said:
I've heard lots of Republican politicians in primary contests say variations of, "I am more conservative than my opponent."

LOTS OF THEM. Often.

I don't know that I've ever heard a Democrat in a primary contest say a variation of, "I am more liberal than my opponent."

Liberal politicians...for the most part (not entirely)...shy away from any use of "I am a liberal."

Just does not happen.
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I also don't recall their negative advertising claiming that their opponent is 'Too Conservative.' Creating the negative connotation associated with the word 'liberal' took a lot of time and money. I am more comfortable being liberal because my side doesn't have to waste our resources on making things up about the right. All we have to do is present the facts in the proper light. The right usually disputes the facts so they don't ever have to argue actual policy. They typically argue that the reasoning for such policy is incorrect. I presume this is because if they actually agreed on the facts and argued policy that their position is a loser. so they never want to go there.
 
Hello Frank,

Frank Apisa said:
If you say so. I've certainly not seen it.

Other than Ocasio Corte...please quote any Democratic politician touting how liberal he/she is.

Even Bernie Sanders didn't do that.
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Andrew Gillum ran as a socialist, campaigned with Bernie. He is now in a very closer recount and could possibly emerge as Florida's next governor.
 
The Republican Senate could declare that it's not a recount, it's cheating, and that will be the beginning of the end of your democracy. Those who are paying attention will know that Trump has already suggested cheating to set the stage. Better that it happens sooner than later, while the people still have a little bit of will to rise up and fight.

But once it starts it's going to go quickly now that Trump has the highest court in the land in his pocket.

What a show America is putting on for the world, and it's free too.
 
evince said:
You would get the same discussion with me sitting on my couch and sipping a beer


all my good friends cuss up a storm


most people younger than me do too


pretending that dirty words don't exist is silly
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To each their own.

Actually, I have to admit that your insults are pretty funny.
 
Hello evince,

evince said:
Posting on here is not about me

its about killing lies

On sites lie this I can hand out facts and truth to way more humans than I could as an old lady in person.

I post as a public service

I love the subject of Politics

I am very informed

those are my talents

To help the world you need to rely on your talents.

In person Im a warm and fuzzy 60 year old lady


I have always had the handicap of being very hourglass shaped and seen as someone incapable of intellect


Yes this life time tomgirl who never dressed for sexy could NEVER escape the shape that my genes gave me


Guys have gone goggle eyed all my life


even though my face is merely average

no make up

Nothing but comfort clothes like jeans and sweats and T shirts all my life


I even hate jewelry (metal feels creepy on my skin)



People are always blown away at who I am inside


My good nature and my big boobs and round ass get silly people to automatically assume Im nothing more than those things.


You would be blown away here how sweet I am in person


Only drug dealers and assholes know my intolerance and fierceness in the face of wrong doing


I greet all new people to me as soon to be friends


those that after knowing me refuse to give up the vacuous bomb shell image just get heaved by the wayside politely.


those who just love me more after knowing whats inside become life long friends
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Big boobs and bombshell look never stopped Nancy Pelosi.

She didn't have to go online to get recognized for her abilities to serve the public.

And she constantly and consistently converses in a manner of civil discourse.

I am going to have to maintain that her approach has done a lot more for the public than using vulgarity in 'killing lies,' (which really doesn't change anybody's view.)

You see, you and I are here for very different reasons. (And that's OK.)

I don't expect to change any minds. If that happens, and I have helped in that, I'm glad. But we have no way of really knowing that happened. It's not like a participant here is suddenly going to 'give it up,' and swap sides. I view it as more of an incremental thing. If I can just connect with one mind somewhere and cause that mind to reconsider one aspect of something, maybe down the road, possibly entertain some self doubt about the strength of a position, blah blah. That would be cool, I guess. But there's never any confirmation of anything like that happening. I come here to stay immersed in the issues, stay informed, get a feel for the motivation behind why people believe what they do, and to brainstorm ideas for correcting some of the issues, some of the really big problems.

I'd like to see forums like this pose more of a contribution to the political process. The brainstorming potential here is off the charts. There are some really smart well informed people here. If we could just quit the bitter bickering and actually talk about ideas, we could churn out some possibly hopeful and potentially promising solutions. Seems like such a waste, sometimes, when the discussions are really good, and it just scrolls right off into oblivion as quickly as the flames. Well, actually, if I get inspired enough about something, I will jot off a note to a Rep or Senator. I imagine others do the same sometimes, but I wonder how much?

Our political process depends on the people contacting their representatives. Not enough of that goes on, so our representatives generally listen to the ones who contact them the most: Industry. During the campaigns they talk about worker rights in public, but then after the election they talk about industry perks behind closed doors. The more people we have involved, the weaker the pressure from industry is relative to public pressure.

Being mean, nasty and vulgar to newcomers in chat rooms, driving them off, doesn't inspire more people to get involved in the political process.
 
PoliTalker said:
Hello Frank,



Andrew Gillum ran as a socialist, campaigned with Bernie. He is now in a very closer recount and could possibly emerge as Florida's next governor.
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Let 's try this again:

LIBERAL!

Here are two comments I wrote leading up to this:

"Other than Ocasio Corte...please quote any Democratic politician touting how liberal he/she is."

"I don't know that I've ever heard a Democrat in a primary contest say a variation of, "I am more liberal than my opponent." Liberal politicians...for the most part (not entirely)...shy away from any use of "I am a liberal." Just does not happen."


Yeah...there are people like Bernie and Gillum...who actually are even willing to use the word "socialist" or "democratic socialist"...RATHER THAN LIBERAL.

That is my point. It is the word that is avoided...because of the scorched Earth policy of American conservatives on it.

"Liberal" has been made one of those swear words for which you show so much contempt, Poli.
 
Nordberg said:
Sanders is a socialist. Cortez could not have claimed she was one actually win. Rashida Tlaib was far far right in Michigan. here are Penn far leftys. https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign/388090-who-is-the-farthest-left-of-them-all
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I am talking about using the word "liberal"...

...and bragging about being "liberal."

There are American conservatives ALL OVER THE PLACE...dozens upon dozens of them who regularly BRAG to their voters that they are extremely conservative...that they are MORE CONSERVATIVE than their opponents in primary races. They uses the words CONSERVATIVE...AND MORE CONSERVATIVE.

I HAVE NOT SEEN ONE LIBERAL POLITICIAN DO THAT USING THE WORD LIBERAL. AND IF THERE ARE ONE OR TWO...THEY ARE THE EXCEPTION.

Now can we stop this bullshit and acknowledge that what I am saying is right on the button.

OR...give us a link to some politicians BRAGGING that they are MORE LIBERAL than an opponent.

LIBERAL! Using that word.
 
Hello Frank,

Frank Apisa said:
Let 's try this again:

LIBERAL!

Here are two comments I wrote leading up to this:

"Other than Ocasio Corte...please quote any Democratic politician touting how liberal he/she is."

"I don't know that I've ever heard a Democrat in a primary contest say a variation of, "I am more liberal than my opponent." Liberal politicians...for the most part (not entirely)...shy away from any use of "I am a liberal." Just does not happen."


Yeah...there are people like Bernie and Gillum...who actually are even willing to use the word "socialist" or "democratic socialist"...RATHER THAN LIBERAL.

That is my point. It is the word that is avoided...because of the scorched Earth policy of American conservatives on it.

"Liberal" has been made one of those swear words for which you show so much contempt, Poli.
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You're right, of course. But the encouraging thing is that could change. Bernie took the pox off the world 'socialist.' Maybe now with people like Ocasio Cortez running successful campaigns featuring how unashamedly liberal they are, there can be some pride associated with that word. I see that as good news bad news. It's good that people are more willing to embrace the word (I do gladly,) but it seems the only way that is happening is a function of stronger polarization of the nation, which is troubling.
 
Hello Frank,

Frank Apisa said:
I am talking about using the word "liberal"...

...and bragging about being "liberal."

There are American conservatives ALL OVER THE PLACE...dozens upon dozens of them who regularly BRAG to their voters that they are extremely conservative...that they are MORE CONSERVATIVE than their opponents in primary races. They uses the words CONSERVATIVE...AND MORE CONSERVATIVE.

I HAVE NOT SEEN ONE LIBERAL POLITICIAN DO THAT USING THE WORD LIBERAL. AND IF THERE ARE ONE OR TWO...THEY ARE THE EXCEPTION.

Now can we stop this bullshit and acknowledge that what I am saying is right on the button.

OR...give us a link to some politicians BRAGGING that they are MORE LIBERAL than an opponent.

LIBERAL! Using that word.
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Of course you are right. You know why that is, don't you? The right is MORE POLARIZED than the left.

The right operates on EXCLUSION and NEGATIVITY. The left operates on INCLUSION and HOPE.

The left reaches out to the middle. The right doesn't. That would be a sign of 'weakness.' There is a lot of ego associated with the right. They want this image of 'being tough.' That's why we have so many people on the right who don't want to engage in civil discourse. That mindset doesn't want to be in intellectual discussions. They just want to tell people off, unload their frustration (or try to.) I get that they are so busy telling themselves things which are not so that they cannot have a polite conversation with an individual who does not share belief in their propaganda. It's really hard to maintain a false belief when somebody is calmly speaking the truth. So they have to try to derail the conversation by going ugly.

Instead of reaching out to the middle and softening their positions, trying to create policy the people want, the right takes the rich old white guy hard line and then uses voter suppression and gerrymandering to try to rig elections.

There's a big difference in the way the two parties operate. The left tries to match their policy to the population. The right tries to force the population to conform to their policy.
 
The Repubs figured out how they could change peoples views by inculcation. They use terms like "death tax" for an estate tax. They call programs that help lots of people, programs they paid for "entitlements. Then repeat it over and over until it is part of our lexicon. That is why people now hate Pelosi and Hillary. They demonized them on TV , newspaper and speeches over and over. Ever hear of "crooked Hillary' That is what happened to Pelosi making her a devil in many peoples eyes. So the term Liberal was treated like a curse by the right for decades. It stuck. Norquist was the latest practioner of that. I think liberal will be salvaged. There are proud liberals now. I have always been one.
 
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