Why Unregulated Capitalism Naturally Creates Poverty; And How To Fix It

[PoliTalker]

Hello Jack,

Would that include importing MORE people from Third World Countries to compete with American Workers?

That is inevitable. If we want to turn that around we need to reduce the number of births in the world, something which would benefit everyone, anyway.

ZPG

And we need to address climate change, because if we don't, we will have unprecedented immigration at our southern border in the form of climate refugees.

You think immigration is bad now, wait a few decades and continue to do nothing about climate change.

Then you'll see what bad is all about.

 

[cawacko]

Hello cawacko,



Good question. If that is the definition of economic perfection, then that perfection has never been achieved. But certainly there are other industrialized nations which are closer to this perfection than the USA.

We need to do better.

And we can do better.

We can do a better job of regulating capitalism to make it work better for our populace.

Why should the people's desires get a practically nonexistent say in what our government does, but big money gets a far bigger voice?

Our Constitution doesn't say that's supposed to happen.

We have to make corruption illegal in America.

What country would you point to as one who has more well paying jobs than America does?

 

[PoliTalker]

Q: Why does unregulated capitalism create poverty?

A: Because the rich and powerful only go after maximum profits, leaving vast resources, equipment, land, and human capital lying dormant if it does not produce maximum profits.

It is greed at work. If somebody is ambitious and they apply themselves to getting rich, they are not going to waste their time on a less-profitable or break-even venture. They are going to avoid anything which does not have maximum profit potential.

That means under the unregulated capitalist system there will never be enough well-paying jobs for everyone. Not even close. Most people will be left out of good jobs and have to take whatever they can find. This system creates a class of working poor.

If the government imposes, say, a minimum wage, then that sets a floor below which wages cannot sink. Without a minimum wage, employers would pay even less. Many employers would pay their workers even less if they could legally do so. They are essentially saying to their workers: "We would pay you even less if we could, but that's against the law."

Many workers earning minimum wage also qualify for government income assistance. This costs the taxpayers money.

If we raise the minimum wage, then all those workers earn more. Many of them will no longer qualify for the dole. This reduces the taxpayer burden. It also puts more money into the hands of the working poor. They will then be able to buy more things, thus increasing the GDP.

Poverty costs America about a trillion dollars per year.

We either pay it up front or down the road. It costs less to pay it up front because we get a bigger GDP and a stronger economy. If we don't raise the minimum wage, it ends up costing the taxpayers more.

And it becomes a form of socialism because it is taxpayer augmented capitalism when the government is supporting the workers of a large corporation like Walmart.

It is ridiculous for the owners of Walmart to be getting fabulously rich as we taxpayers put food on their worker's tables.

Let Walmart pay their workers enough to support themselves!

Why should the taxpayers be supporting Walmart's workers? And Amazon, McDonalds, etc, and many other big corps, too. They are taking us to the bank, folks. It is time we step in and flex our collective muscle.

 

[Jack]

Hello Jack,



PRECISELY!

And that's the problem.

Our nation needs to have other goals besides letting the richest become richer.

Which is why we, the people, need to impose our concerns on that metric to get our needs met. Capitalism serves the richest most powerful capitalists. Everybody else has to deal with the side effects.

50% of Americans are 'Shareholders'. So there will be a problem convincing half of Americans to 'give up' something they have for the other half.

 

[archives]

There is no such thing as “unregulated capitalism,” just as there aren’t any pure socialist economies in the world

Every nation’s economy is a mixed economy, none are straight one or the other, the US has been part socialist since the 19th Century, if not before, the question becomes how much do you regulate in either direction. And even that is not clear cut, Japan being the best example

 

[PoliTalker]

Hello Jack,

50% of Americans are 'Shareholders'. So there will be a problem convincing half of Americans to 'give up' something they have for the other half.

Don't have to. We only need to tax the super richest. Most people would get more if we reduce wealth and income inequality.

First of all, we are going to make the whole pie bigger. And secondly, more people will get a bigger slice.

Keeping so many people impoverished stunts our productivity.

 

[Jack]

Hello Jack,



That is inevitable. If we want to turn that around we need to reduce the number of births in the world, something which would benefit everyone, anyway.

ZPG

And we need to address climate change, because if we don't, we will have unprecedented immigration at our southern border in the form of climate refugees.

You think immigration is bad now, wait a few decades and continue to do nothing about climate change.

Then you'll see what bad is all about.

So. You can see the Problem (importation of Third World Labor to replace/compete with American Labor) and you fail to have the courage to address the Issue.
(the American Capitalists applaud your weakness. Third World Labor means MORE profits for Shareholders. Thanks for being a Capitalist Stooge, Poli)

 

[PoliTalker]

Hello cawacko,

What country would you point to as one who has more well paying jobs than America does?

Just about every other industrialized nation has a lower percentage of poverty than the USA.

 

[Jack]

Hello Jack,



Don't have to. We only need to tax the super richest. Most people would get more if we reduce wealth and income inequality.

First of all, we are going to make the whole pie bigger. And secondly, more people will get a bigger slice.

Keeping so many people impoverished stunts our productivity.

'Automation' will be what puts people out of Work.

 

[PoliTalker]

Hello Jack,

So. You can see the Problem (importation of Third World Labor to replace/compete with American Labor) and you fail to have the courage to address the Issue.
(the American Capitalists applaud your weakness. Third World Labor means MORE profits for Shareholders. Thanks for being a Capitalist Stooge, Poli)

That is incomplete short-sided thinking.

The world doesn't end at our borders. We have to think globally. The US must lead the effort to deal with climate change. The USA produces emissions per capita than any other country. We are 5% of the world population consuming 25% of the world's energy. We can't just take a stiffer position on immigration and pretend it away. A humanitarian crisis would follow. We have to deal with the real problem, climate change, in order to avoid a bigger immigration problem down the road in the form of millions of climate refugees fleeing from a place they can no longer physically live. We must act now.

 

[PoliTalker]

'Automation' will be what puts people out of Work.

And automation will be what sends capitalist profits into orbit.

And we will need to tax the richest more heavily then to pay for a UBI.

And they will have the money because when the automate they will be increasing their profits.

 

[Jack]

Hello Jack,



That is incomplete short-sided thinking.

The world doesn't end at our borders. We have to think globally. The US must lead the effort to deal with climate change. The USA produces emissions per capita than any other country. We are 5% of the world population consuming 25% of the world's energy. We can't just take a stiffer position on immigration and pretend it away. A humanitarian crisis would follow. We have to deal with the real problem, climate change, in order to avoid a bigger immigration problem down the road in the form of millions of climate refugees fleeing from a place they can no longer physically live. We must act now.

Translation: 'Yes. I'm a Stooge for American Capitalists. The best way to smash the American Working Class is through Importation of Third World Labor'.

 

[cawacko]

Hello cawacko,



Just about every other industrialized nation has a lower percentage of poverty than the USA.

That doesn't answer the question of what country has more well paying jobs. It doesn't really pass the sniff test why so many people come from all over the globe (some risking everything) to come to America if every other industrialized country offers more well paying jobs and less poverty.

 

[Jack]

And automation will be what sends capitalist profits into orbit.

And we will need to tax the richest more heavily then to pay for a UBI.

And they will have the money because when the automate they will be increasing their profits.

If everyone was a 'Shareholder', the rising tide would lift all boats.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

If everyone was a 'Shareholder', the rising tide would lift all boats.

That's the number one way to reduce poverty. Turn as many people as possible into owners. One way to do that is remove perpetual taxation of property from government. When people can own their 'stuff' without risk of government taking it from them, there is an increased incentive to own stuff. Over time, wealth will accumulate to individuals and away from government. That's a good thing. Two examples would be:

Eliminate in whole or part property taxes on real estate.

Eliminate estate taxes entirely.

 

[PoliTalker]

Hello cawacko,

That doesn't answer the question of what country has more well paying jobs. It doesn't really pass the sniff test why so many people come from all over the globe (some risking everything) to come to America if every other industrialized country offers more well paying jobs and less poverty.

For a vast many it is a dream unfulfilled when they find out that in the USA, hard work often does not reward the worker with financial security.

In the United States it is quite common to work full time and still live in poverty. Most industrialized nations reward more full time workers with economic security than the USA. We have a higher percentage of full time workers who live in poverty, unable to build wealth because they are locked into dead-end budgets which feature deciding which essential to give up on which month. And if that's not bad enough we have predatory lending to prey on the poor, causing their lives to be even worse. The USA has a high percentage of negative net worth individuals. Greedy rich have already stolen the future earnings of many workers.

Getting rich off the oppression of the poor is a popular avocation in America. Many businesses are profitable only if they treat the workers very poorly, creating sweatshops. Ever heard of the plight of Amazon warehouse workers? It is high pressure hustle with every second counted or you are fired. Workers come home utterly exhausted just to have a low paying job, about what the minimum wage SHOULD be.

The profits generated from high stakes corporations are used to influence lawmakers to ensure that workers do not acquire any more rights.

We can and should do better.

 

[cawacko]

Hello cawacko,



For a vast many it is a dream unfulfilled when they find out that in the USA, hard work often does not reward the worker with financial security.

In the United States it is quite common to work full time and still live in poverty. Most industrialized nations reward more full time workers with economic security than the USA. We have a higher percentage of full time workers who live in poverty, unable to build wealth because they are locked into dead-end budgets which feature deciding which essential to give up on which month. And if that's not bad enough we have predatory lending to prey on the poor, causing their lives to be even worse. The USA has a high percentage of negative net worth individuals. Greedy rich have already stolen the future earnings of many workers.

Getting rich off the oppression of the poor is a popular avocation in America. Many businesses are profitable only if they treat the workers very poorly, creating sweatshops. Ever heard of the plight of Amazon warehouse workers? It is high pressure hustle with every second counted or you are fired. Workers come home utterly exhausted just to have a low paying job, about what the minimum wage SHOULD be.

The profits generated from high stakes corporations are used to influence lawmakers to ensure that workers do not acquire any more rights.

We can and should do better.

You're still not answering the question of which country has more well paying jobs which was your claim.

Immigrants have been coming to this country in high numbers since its founding. If it is as bad as you say, and all these other countries have more higher paying jobs, wouldn't immigrants have figured that out by now and started going to these other countries?

 

[Jack]

That's the number one way to reduce poverty. Turn as many people as possible into owners. One way to do that is remove perpetual taxation of property from government. When people can own their 'stuff' without risk of government taking it from them, there is an increased incentive to own stuff. Over time, wealth will accumulate to individuals and away from government. That's a good thing. Two examples would be:

Eliminate in whole or part property taxes on real estate.

Eliminate estate taxes entirely.

Neither of those ideas addresses the American Working Class.

One, is the problem of Jobs being 'outsourced to Asia' and 'Automated'.
Two, is the 'Wage' being paid.

Importing a Billion Low Wage Third World Workers is NOT the Solution.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

Neither of those ideas addresses the American Working Class.

Sure they do. The first means that anyone can buy land or a home and it's theirs essentially forever. The second means it's inheritable and won't be taxed away from one generation to the next. Over time, even the most menial of families can build wealth and rise from poverty.

One, is the problem of Jobs being 'outsourced to Asia' and 'Automated'.
Two, is the 'Wage' being paid.

The problem with jobs being outsourced is that government regulation in the form of Socialist rules for a welfare state means that worker's wages are heavily taxed and that high wages are mandatory through government fiat. The later means that all low paying, marginally productive, and low profit jobs are forced out of the market by either technology or outsourcing.

The wage paid should be commensurate with the productivity of the job, not artificially inflated to above market value.

Importing a Billion Low Wage Third World Workers is NOT the Solution.

This is absolutely true.

 

[Lightbringer]

Why Unregulated Capitalism Naturally Creates Poverty; And How To Fix It

The problem isn't with the ownership, a scorpion will always be a scorpion, it can't be anything other than a scorpion. The failure is on the labor side.