Why We Always Need To Think Of The Collective...

PoliTalker said:
Hello Celticguy,



Commerce between individuals? That's what happens in a society:

" society

n.
The totality of people regarded as forming a community of interdependent individuals.
n.
A group of people broadly distinguished from other groups by mutual interests, participation in characteristic relationships, shared institutions, and a common culture."
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Your own definitions of evidence prove you’re wrong. Free commerce all over the world does not require a “community of interdependent individuals.” Free commerce is totally available between individuals & individual nations without interdependence on a collective body, & does!

Again, “mutual interests, participation in characteristic relationships, shared institutions, and a common culture." are not required to participate in free commerce. We have trade agreements all over the world with very diversified peoples & nations, who necessarily share collectively in “NONE OF THE ABOVE.

No, I must disagree. Commerce is only possible if there IS a society. OK? The lack of a society would be that individuals are not in contact or communication with one another. Like a bunch of lone predators. As soon as you have interactions between individuals, that is the basis of a society.
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HORSESHIT! It’s simply a basis to make a peaceful deal “INDIVIDUALLY” They don’t need to join the “FUCKING CLUB!”

Individual humans depend on society to provide their needs.
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More horseshit! The only rational reason to even have a collective government to begin with is to collectively agree with a rule of law and establish a system whereby the rule of law is enforced with equal justice for all and protection for all citizens from those who would violate their individual rights & against threats from other nations. Otherwise, good governance, is as our founders said, “is a limited government” that leaves its people free to associate & trade & interact as they choose without interference from government.

The individuals look to society to provide nearly all their needs. Almost anything an individual needs, it is probably coming from another individual or group in the broader society of humans.

Societies most definitely serve the needs of the individuals.
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A free people don’t need a fucking club or government to belong too, or be ruled by to freely interact & trade or create jobs for others, or enrich themselves or support their families or care for their offspring or invent things, or establish businesses. FREE COMMERCE provides for every need & establishes the advancement of the human condition! None of that comes from a collective government! Government meddling where it has no expertise only makes things more expensive & of less quality!
 
StoneByStone said:
The GOP, with their promises of individualism, is bringing us to Fascism now.

Often people who only care about themselves will stand around smiling while the government begins taking away rights of other people.
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If the GOP can bring us both individualism and fascism, then it can work some serious magic. It's like when the poster AsshatZombie tells me he is feeling menaced by the rise of international fascism.
 
Hello Howard the Duck,

Howard the Duck said:
If the GOP can bring us both individualism and fascism, then it can work some serious magic. It's like when the poster AsshatZombie tells me he is feeling menaced by the rise of international fascism.
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The GOP is most certainly succumbing to magical notions if they think a large group of interdependent individuals is not a society.
 
CharacterAssassin said:
Newp. Distinctions w/out differences in these extreme cases, althought the Iranians are 'better' in both regards.

Since you don't understand either word, child, and you have no clue about the politics involved, why are you trying to speak when your betters are speaking?

Be a good little monkey and fetch us all some tea, Fatima.
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All things being equal, and we don't take Kilpatrick's argument favoring authoritarianism over totalitarianism, then, we can only judge Iran and KSA in terms of self-interest. In which case, KSA is clearly the "better."

Too bad you know shit about political science, as you can't define any of these terms, and were dumb enough to rank Iran as better than KSA.
 
Howard the Duck said:
All things being equal, and we don't take Kilpatrick's argument favoring authoritarianism over totalitarianism, then, we can only judge Iran and KSA in terms of self-interest. In which case, KSA is clearly the "better."

Too bad you know shit about political science, as you can't define any of these terms, and were dumb enough to rank Iran as better than KSA.
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Fun to watch you desperately try and pretend you know anything about international matters.

While you're up, get me a sammich, Fatima.
 
PoliTalker said:
Hello Celticguy,



Right. Individuals, governments and for-profit capitalist corporations within society supply nearly all the needs of the individuals in that society.
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Leave off government as it gives nothing that it hadnt taken first.
Companies are just a collection of individuals trading with one another (generally time for money).
The society is the shared interest (safety typically).
This is the central disagreement here.
 
Celticguy said:
Leave off government as it gives nothing that it hadnt taken first.
Companies are just a collection of individuals trading with one another (generally time for money).
The society is the shared interest (safety typically).
This is the central disagreement here.
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I really don't get your point.

Everything you described is part of interdependent society.
 
Howard the Duck said:
If the GOP can bring us both individualism and fascism, then it can work some serious magic. It's like when the poster AsshatZombie tells me he is feeling menaced by the rise of international fascism.
Click to expand...

The GOP promises us individualism but instead gives us Fascism, the same way they promise us small government but expand the size of government.

This should help explain things.

 
Hello Celticguy,

Celticguy said:
Its not interDEPENDANT. Society sits in the perrifery.
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Sounds to me like we are using very different definitions for 'society.'

Social interactions are individuals having regular contact with one another for mutual benefit.

Commerce is an example of a social interaction.

People get most of their needs met from other people in society.

That is why it is called social interdependence.

And a very good reason why we need to think of the collective in our actions.
 
PoliTalker said:
Hello Celticguy,



Sounds to me like we are using very different definitions for 'society.'

Social interactions are individuals having regular contact with one another for mutual benefit.

Commerce is an example of a social interaction.

People get most of their needs met from other people in society.

That is why it is called social interdependence.

And a very good reason why we need to think of the collective in our actions.
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Commerce is not a social interaction. Its commerce.
Not all social interactions are mutually beneficial (traffic ticket).
You seek to conflate the two. I know better.
 
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