Why we're doomed!

We're doomed because some of us think that a real difference would be made by banning NASCAR rather than making cool new technology cool rather than craptacularly boring.
 
Originally Posted by Taichiliberal
Once again, you exaggerate a specific case and then try to foist it as a generalization on all "liberals".

Do the proper homework and you'll see that the case involving the Kennedy's had to do with a HISTORIC defense of NATIVE American land from industrial development....not the NIMBY reaction by rich liberals that the neocon press (NewsMax, WND, FoxNews, etc.) and punditry would have you believe.
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Threedee said:
Yeah, cuz generalizations are bad.
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Precisely my point...thanks for agreeing. :good4u:
 
Originally Posted by Taichiliberal
And while you're patting yourself on the back for your little summation, you might want to pay attention to the little corrections I've given you here.

My POINT was that as a society we seem hell bent on maintaining certain levels of entertainment REGARDLESS of what's going on around us.
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WinterBorn said:
Your info about solar panels and wind turbines is great. It has absolutely nothing to do with my reply to the OP. Actually, my point regarding grass roots political push behind solar panels and wind turbines responds EXACTLY to the assertions you stated. I used them as a reality based example to prove you wrong.

Yes, you are correct, there is more gas burned than just the weekly race. But that really doesn't change why you specifically pointed out NASCAR. If you mulpily what they burn on the main race by 10, you are still just a drop in the bucket of what under-inflated tires cost us. Sorry, but you can't have it both ways.....NASCAR is a culmination....a matter of fact, a matter of history, as I pointed out. Rather than actually deal with the explanation, you just repeat yourself and ignore what I said. STOP AND THINK....if you've already got a system that produces a sizeable amount of pollution and waste of fuel (our daily commuters, as you aptly pointed out) then why continue to endorse a system that not only accents all the bad aspects (via fuel emissions) but wastes land/resources via construction and maintenance of various tracks. Rather than defend your ridiculous, elitist attack on rednecks, why not admit that is was bogus to begin with.

Whoa....catch yourself, son. I AM NOT THE ONE making racial slurs or enforcing a stereotype...YOU ARE. And I didn't "attack" NASCAR out of some "elitist" (spare me that Rovian/Shrub bullshit...will ya please?) vendetta....I named 3 things that I view represent America's stubborn adherence to a mindset that defies the on-going environmental problems we are facing. And besides that, NASCAR in the past decade has become more than just a "southern" thing, as people perceive....as my local NYC stations can attest to ( and have for some time). If that hits a nerve with you, fine....but DON'T read malicious intent into something that is not there.

No, I don't have specific numbers for water parks. Do you actually think it would compare with the savings from using less water to flush? Really?

If every household (105,480,101) cut the volume of water in each flush by a third (Dixie), the savings per household would be 1,195,996,673,198 gals per year. The closest thing to numbers of water parks I can find is "over 1,000". So lets call it 2,000 to make it as fair as possible for you. To compare the savings of the changing of volume of flush toilets (in homes only) would mean each water park would have to waste almost 600 million gals per year. Many waterparks use "reclaimed" water and recyle the water they have. So this entire line is bogus as well.

:palm: Actually, what's "bogus" is how you think this scenario of yours is a substitute/excuse for the FACT that YOU JUST DON'T HAVE THE INFORMATION REGARDING WATER PARKS (by your own admission, no less). That was the initial point of query to your earlier assertion. Here's a hint for your homework assignment: in the last 20 years alone you've had a plethora of articles across the nation regarding local opposition to water theme park construction due to it's impact on local water supply. Get cracking, bunky.



I am not making any claims that we are doing nearly enough. My claim was that your attacks on NASCAR and waterparks is not really about conservation. But is more about making yourself feel superior. Neither of those two is even close to the top of their respective categories.

You repeating an assertion that's already been addressed is just wasting both our time and energy. See above responses.

And who the hell are you to try and determine who gets to enjoy what form of entertainment? There are an estimated 75 million NASCAR fans. If half of those are serious fans, youhave a significant portion of the population being entertained by racing. If half of those 75 million watch the race at home on sunday, then you should consider the amount of gas not burned by 37.5 million fans staying home.

My, my....touched a nerve, did I? Tell me something bunky, who the fuck are you to determine that in an age of environmental problems an estimated 75 million "fans" get to enjoy themselves at the expense of various local sections derived from the other 225 million non-fans?

You keep pounding a moot point regarding daily gas usage by the general commuting public (moot as in "I agreed with you and didn't contest the point). My point, as fully explained previously, is that you have continuous systems of resource waste for pure entertainment purposes that flys in the face of efforts towards energy conservation and clearing the air we breath...and people will stubbornly defend those systems....as you are doing so here.



I didn't pat myself on the back for anything. All I did was correct another "You people are ruining the world" whiner who wants to point fingers at others instead of trying to actually make changes.
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:palm: You can tell yourself that until doomsday....proving it logically in print is another story...and so far I've poked enough holes in your gasbag to keep you grounded.

Let's be clear....YOU came after me with a hostile attitude...so don't get huffy if I respond in kind. My opening statement is for society in general....we just aren't serious about this and won't be until it's up to our necks, IMHO.
 
Originally Posted by Taichiliberal
Once again, you exaggerate a specific case and then try to foist it as a generalization on all "liberals".

Do the proper homework and you'll see that the case involving the Kennedy's had to do with a HISTORIC defense of NATIVE American land from industrial development....not the NIMBY reaction by rich liberals that the neocon press (NewsMax, WND, FoxNews, etc.) and punditry would have you believe.
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Southern Man said:
I wasn't referring to that case specifically, but in general. (Interesting spin BTW, but a tangential point, and I know how you insist on sticking to the OP subject so I won't go there.) Nor was I referring to "all liberals". Liberal groups fought windmills in Boone, NC as well. They seem to fight them everywhere except Kansas and Texas, both red states. Why do you suppose that is?
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Typical Southy bullshit.....he makes generalized statements and offers NO tangible, valid and documented evidence. Southy's response to my easily googled point regarding the Kennedy's is the time honored neocon retort, "liberal spin"...yet he won't DARE discuss details to support his accusation.

You want to discuss opinions, Southy...that's fine....but spare us all your time wasting Southern Man bullshit dance but trying to play your assertions, supposition and conjecture as valid facts. Give us news articles from valid news sources (not your neocon blogger bullshit) and then we'll have a basis for real discussion.
 
Superfreak said:
you are quite comical... you point to NASCAR as an abuser, but like WB stated, you ignore the major violators.... all because it suits your little rant.

:palm: And here is our resident Super Freak(ing) dumb blowhard, out to best the "liberals" at every turn. Pity the Super Freaking dumbass just repeats the same mistakes as WinterBorn. I suggest he reads my responses to him today.

1) You want to drastically reduce oil consumption... get the idiots in Congress to force the use of Nat Gas vehicles. 70% of our oil consumption is due to transportation. Rather than banning a tiny little group for a miniscule amount of consumption relative to the whole... suggest REAL alternatives and REAL solutions.

The "idiots" in Congress include all the SOB's YOU voted for and give/gave diehard support to when they fought tooth and nail against regulation of the oil industry ( I'd REALLY like to know who was at that meeting with Cheney and what went down, don't you? Who the hell ever heard of a "secret meeting" regarding the public energy needs that neither the Congress or Senate are privy to on any level? As for the rest or your paragraph....read what I told WinterBorn on the subject today.

2) Solar... you rant about the 'proper use of solar': here is a hint. Until it is economically viable... it is NOT a solution. It is becoming more economically viable now that oil has maintained closer to fair value around the $75-80 brl. It is something we should focus on expanding, but it most certainly has NOT been something we could have been doing for years and years.

:palm: Where do you get these numbers? And who told you it's not economically feasible? THINK, you dope, THINK! Solar power has long been pushed as SUPPLEMENTARY in most cases! Carter puts up solar panels and saves on energy costs....Reagan takes them down for what, a symbol of bonehead stubborness? Because they didn't look nice? Do you think that all those urban city apartment roof tops broiling in summer sun couldn't run a hefty percentage of their electrical with solar panels? Or when applied to commercial buildings?

You need to stop adhering to the mythology and deal with the reality:

http://www.lilith-ezine.com/articles/environmental/The-Solar-Powered-Myth.html

3) Water: see WB's comments. See my responses to him. In addition, I would add that we should stop all the moronic attempts to use crops as biofuel. Along with GM crops. You want to save water: stop that waste and get the focus onto algae based biofuels. That method consumes 1% of the water that crop based biofuels do. It also leaves NO waste as the biproduct of the process produces a high carb food source that can be used for livestock (which further reduces the grain consumption). Add in the fact that the algae systems can be put on ANY type of land and this is a no brainer. But wait, there's more.... the algae also acts as a scrub and can be used to help draw pollutants out of the air.
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What's a "no brainer" is how YOU personally establish a side bar subject as a crucial element in water waste.....while just giving out supposition and conjecture as fact regarding Water theme parks. You need to get up to speed regarding a subject that has been discussed around the country for some time. Observe this beaut from Arizona from 3 years ago as an example

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21897687/
 
Damocles said:
We're doomed because some of us think that a real difference would be made by banning NASCAR rather than making cool new technology cool rather than craptacularly boring.
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Actually, we're doomed because fools like you with a an axe to grind miss the point.

Let me dumb it down for you...I pointing out how in the face of mounting environmental problems, people will stubbornly hold onto forms of entertainment that are prime examples of excessive use of a resource. Since it's taken decades just to get the mass population's day-to-day usage to come in-line with the changes we do have, I just point out that we're not serious if we think we can continue with a "business as usual" attitude with the examples I gave.
 
Originally Posted by WinterBorn
Your info about solar panels and wind turbines is great. It has absolutely nothingto do with my reply to the OP.

Yes, you are correct, there is more gas burned than just the weekly race. But that really doesn't change why you specifically pointed out NASCAR. If you mulpily what they burn on the main race by 10, you are still just a drop in the bucket of what under-inflated tires cost us. Rather than defend your ridiculous, elitist attack on rednecks, why not admit that is was bogus to begin with.


No, I don't have specific numbers for water parks. Do you actually think it would compare with the savings from using less water to flush? Really?

If every household (105,480,101) cut the volume of water in each flush by a third (Dixie), the savings per household would be 1,195,996,673,198 gals per year. The closest thing to numbers of water parks I can find is "over 1,000". So lets call it 2,000 to make it as fair as possible for you. To compare the savings of the changing of volume of flush toilets (in homes only) would mean each water park would have to waste almost 600 million gals per year. Many waterparks use "reclaimed" water and recyle the water they have. So this entire line is bogus as well.



I am not making any claims that we are doing nearly enough. My claim was that your attacks on NASCAR and waterparks is not really about conservation. But is more about making yourself feel superior. Neither of those two is even close to the top of their respective categories.

And who the hell are you to try and determine who gets to enjoy what form of entertainment? There are an estimated 75 million NASCAR fans. If half of those are serious fans, youhave a significant portion of the population being entertained by racing. If half of those 75 million watch the race at home on sunday, then you should consider the amount of gas not burned by 37.5 million fans staying home.



I didn't pat myself on the back for anything. All I did was correct another "You people are ruining the world" whiner who wants to point fingers at others instead of trying to actually make changes.
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Superfreak said:
FYI.... do note.... Taichi also did not provide any ready data on water parks. Funny how that works.
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FYI: Super Freak(ing) Dumb should note that my opening post was my personal observation. Since WinterBorn made a statement as "fact", I asked him to provide some....he couldn't. Follow the chronology of the posts, and one can see I provide information when needed and in proper context.
 
Superfreak said:
Bottom line.... if we were really worried about obesity, we would not have movies, tv or video games.

So fire everyone in hollywood. Take away their jet setting, their 1347 awards shows around the world they travel to in order to pat themselves on the back, their mansions, their yachts, their 23 vacations homes etc... Not only would this help the obesity problem in this country, but it would also save tons of energy from the lack of all those jets flying around to back patting awards ceremonies and premieres of ever increasingly shitty movies.

Also fire everyone who makes video games as they are quite simply not taking the obesity situation seriously. To the contrary they encourage kids and adults alike to sit on their fat asses learning how best to steal cars and blow each other up. Obviously murder and car theft numbers would diminish greatly while at the same time encouraging tubby to get off his fat ass and go outside and potentially get in shape. How dare people choose to entertain themselves in this manner.
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Bottom line: you just wasted space and time trying to mock something that obviously disturbs your comfort zone: That was my point, you blathering jackass....point out the wastes in some of America's past times and traditional way of doing things, and dopes like you get all bent out of shape....until the shit hits the fan and it's in your backyard. Then suddenly all those wild, crazy ideas and points don't seem so outlandish.
 
Taichiliberal said:
:palm: You can tell yourself that until doomsday....proving it logically in print is another story...and so far I've poked enough holes in your gasbag to keep you grounded.

Let's be clear....YOU came after me with a hostile attitude...so don't get huffy if I respond in kind. My opening statement is for society in general....we just aren't serious about this and won't be until it's up to our necks, IMHO.
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You didn't poke holes in anything. You simply brought up a new topic and insisted that it and your original post are accurate. That is not the case. I didn't come after you with a hostile attitude. I came after the condescending attitude with which you condemned two minor issues and tried to make them an indication of a larger issues. You are pretending that I am endorsing the two things you brought up. That is not quite what I did, is it?

What I did was show that your two examples were tiny percentages of the overall waste and pollution that this nation has. I pointed out there are simple things that can be done that would have a much larger impact on our fuel useage and water waste.

What you are pissed about is that I made your OP look foolish.


You want to condemn NASCAR, and try and make it seem as though it is responsible for more pollution and fuel useage than it is. The under-inflated tires I are a much larger issue. NASCAR and the businesses that surround it provide entertainment for tens of millions of people, and jobs for hundreds of thousands. Under-inflated tires are a sign of the laziness of the american driver. It is also an issue for as many as 80% of teh cars on the road. So it means you can't point fingers as a single group you wish to feel superior over.

As for the water parks, I haven't presented any hard numbers. But then, neither have you. I did, however, present a simple issue/cure that would do far more to help our water waste issues. And did so without taking away the fun and entertainment of the tens of millions of people who enjoy water parks. I brought up the fact that water parks often recycle their water and use the reclaimed water for their parks. You have shown nothing to counter this.

Your OP was a typical "americans are bad" rant, pointing at specific groups as the culprits. Ignoring the entertainment values and employment values of both.
 
Taichiliberal said:
If as a nation we were serious about fuel conservation or curtailing air pollution, NASCAR wouldn't exist.

If as a nation we were serious about clean water and water conservation, we wouldn't have "water theme" amusement parks running during the summer months.

If as a nation we were serious about energy conservation, then solar panels would have been strategically placed and used in our urban/suburban areas during the summer months LONG ago.

But let's face it folks, the majority of Americans are not serious about this stuff.....until it screws with their personal space. :(
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You seem to think this was accurate. Let me help you understand why its not.

#1 - We could be serious about fuel conservation and curtailing air pollution and still have NASCAR. There are many ways to cut fuel consumption that would conserve far more fuel than NASCAR uses. Also, we could end NASCAR and still be consuming far more fuel than we should and still be polluting more than we need to. So this point is inaccurate.

#2 - If we closed all the water parks, we would still not be conserving water or making a significant difference in clean water conservation. By the same token, we could do many things that would make a bigger difference.
 
Taichiliberal said:
Typical Southy bullshit.....he makes generalized statements and offers NO tangible, valid and documented evidence. Southy's response to my easily googled point regarding the Kennedy's is the time honored neocon retort, "liberal spin"...yet he won't DARE discuss details to support his accusation.

You want to discuss opinions, Southy...that's fine....but spare us all your time wasting Southern Man bullshit dance but trying to play your assertions, supposition and conjecture as valid facts. Give us news articles from valid news sources (not your neocon blogger bullshit) and then we'll have a basis for real discussion.
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Why did liberals fight windmills in Boone, NC?
 
Taichiliberal said:
Actually, we're doomed because fools like you with a an axe to grind miss the point.

Let me dumb it down for you...I pointing out how in the face of mounting environmental problems, people will stubbornly hold onto forms of entertainment that are prime examples of excessive use of a resource. Since it's taken decades just to get the mass population's day-to-day usage to come in-line with the changes we do have, I just point out that we're not serious if we think we can continue with a "business as usual" attitude with the examples I gave.
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Let me "dumb this down for you", I think it is childlike and simple to think that the "real resolution" would be silly "examples" based in feel good rubbish while ignoring any suggestion that makes sense. And that if we made cool things like the Tesla Roadster rather than crappy squiggly light bulbs that have to be handled by hazmat teams when you throw them away, we'd make a real difference.

Imagine extremely fast Roadsters racing on NASCAR day... I could see that. You do know that NASCAR is based on regular cars that are sold, no? If they make these cars not suck, not tiny killer roller skates that collapse at the first sign of a truck in their rear view mirror, if they make them so I can pull a horse trailer behind them, you'd see a difference. Banning NASCAR is a worthless symbolic gesture that would be resolved when stock cars were the electric vehicles you'd rather see us all driving. Make them not suck, that is the real solution.
 
Seeing NASCAR go away wouldn't bother me. The fact that they call it "stock car" racing, and the only thing stock is probably the battery tray makes it a waste of my time. I've been to a couple of races when I was much younger. It was loud as hell and I got drunk. Not much of a sport, in my mind.

But as an indicator of our lack of commitment to saving the planet, it is laughable.
 
I love limosine liberals, my sister is one I might be one.
Here we have one for sure. Taichi most definatley drives and worse probably fly's on occasion.
Here's a clue only a tiny percentage of far left of Pelosi lefties care and the percentage of that group who aren't hypocrites is even smaller.

My sister freezes crabs so they won't feel the pain as much. She works in Berkley and drives a BMW. I can't be the only one who thinks that's funny
 
Topspin said:
I love limosine liberals, my sister is one I might be one.
Here we have one for sure. Taichi most definatley drives and worse probably fly's on occasion.
Here's a clue only a tiny percentage of far left of Pelosi lefties care and the percentage of that group who aren't hypocrites is even smaller.

My sister freezes crabs so they won't feel the pain as much. She works in Berkley and drives a BMW. I can't be the only one who thinks that's funny
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GED, KKK, poor.
 
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