Why we're doomed!

[WinterBorn]

GED, KKK, poor.

Stalker

 

[NOVA]

TCL says...

Do a little more research....as to the amount of trial races prior to the major events, the qualifying races, the various "little races" throughout the country and the year to get up to the main event. Find out how many gallons are burned, what's the emission rates, how much land is razed to become tracks, accomodate fans, etc. There's more to "Nascar" than just the one event.

Hilarious...Obama sucks up more fuel on one or two dates with is wife flying to NY on AF1 with all the Sec. service men, etc.

Al Gore probably uses more to fuel than that to heat his swimming pools in his various mansions.....we won't even get into John Kerry and his homes....

 

[DamnYankee]

TCL says...


Hilarious...Obama sucks up more fuel on one or two dates with is wife flying to NY on AF1 with all the Sec. service men, etc.

Al Gore probably uses more to fuel than that to heat his swimming pools in his various mansions.....we won't even get into John Kerry and his homes....

Those would be Teresa Heinz Kerry's homes...

 

[WinterBorn]

The cries about Obama burning more fuel in his business trips, and the nonsense about Gore, Kerry or whoever, are not much different than the NASCAR whining.

Everyone knows we have to change the way we use fuel, change the fuels we use, and try and slow the destruction. But everyone wants to point at someone else as the worst culprit.

Another fine example of the dangers of having such a partisan political arena. Too many think more important for their side to win than for anything to get donw.

 

[Minister of Truth]

No, Sol, its just that there's a lot of hypocrites running around in the environmental debate. Conservatives don't pretend to be saving the planet when they drive around in SUVs or attend boring auto races, because usually they just engage in conservation projects such as recycling, preserving lands and forests, maintaining national parks. Its leftists who pelt us with the threat of carbon credits and whatnot.

 

[Lao Tse]

If as a nation we were serious about fuel conservation or curtailing air pollution, NASCAR wouldn't exist.

If as a nation we were serious about clean water and water conservation, we wouldn't have "water theme" amusement parks running during the summer months.

If as a nation we were serious about energy conservation, then solar panels would have been strategically placed and used in our urban/suburban areas during the summer months LONG ago.

But let's face it folks, the majority of Americans are not serious about this stuff.....until it screws with their personal space.

You're right. Nobody is serious about it because AGW is a lie, as is biofuel scarcity.

All these lies are made up just to justify high prices, more energy taxes, and fascist control of energy usage.

 

[Taichiliberal]

Originally Posted by Taichiliberal
If as a nation we were serious about fuel conservation or curtailing air pollution, NASCAR wouldn't exist.

If as a nation we were serious about clean water and water conservation, we wouldn't have "water theme" amusement parks running during the summer months.

If as a nation we were serious about energy conservation, then solar panels would have been strategically placed and used in our urban/suburban areas during the summer months LONG ago.

But let's face it folks, the majority of Americans are not serious about this stuff.....until it screws with their personal space.

You're right. Nobody is serious about it because AGW is a lie, as is biofuel scarcity.

All these lies are made up just to justify high prices, more energy taxes, and fascist control of energy usage.

Newsflash for you.....prices and energy taxes were going up LONG before AGW was recognized as a reality (yes, a reality....even the naysayers of "climate gate" had to acknowledge they were wrong in public). Maybe you're too young to remember the "energy crisis" of the late 1970's, with it's "oil shortages" and then miraculous "oil gluts". Guess who were pulling those strings?

Perhaps you are not familiar with the term "corporate welfare"? I suggest you research it carefully, because it does establish a quasi-facist relationship with our gov't LONG before AGW or Obama.

Essentially, your statement is incorrect and historically inaccurate. My viewpoint is and remains that until it's in their own backyard, most Americans will not heed the warnings and defend their excesses to the death.

 

[Taichiliberal]

Originally Posted by Taichiliberal
You can tell yourself that until doomsday....proving it logically in print is another story...and so far I've poked enough holes in your gasbag to keep you grounded.

Let's be clear....YOU came after me with a hostile attitude...so don't get huffy if I respond in kind. My opening statement is for society in general....we just aren't serious about this and won't be until it's up to our necks, IMHO.

You didn't poke holes in anything. You simply brought up a new topic and insisted that it and your original post are accurate. That is not the case. I didn't come after you with a hostile attitude. I came after the condescending attitude with which you condemned two minor issues and tried to make them an indication of a larger issues. You are pretending that I am endorsing the two things you brought up. That is not quite what I did, is it?

Stop lying...the chronology of the post does not in anyway support the fantasy you are relating here. I stated and opinion...YOU came after me with an attitude and some assertions that you presented as unshakeable fact. All I did was merely deconstruct your assertion to demonstrate that it was not as factually sound as you would like it to be. During the exchange you even admitted that you did not know the exact facts of one of your assertions...yet you continued to pontificate as if your supposition and conjecture would fill the void. Clearly to the objective and rational reader, you failed.

My opening post does have an attitude...not condescending, just assessing a situation. For some reason, YOU reacted as if I personally attack you or anyone who likes NASCAR. I clearly didn't (that's your personal problem, not mine)...just pointed out the absurdity of that, the water theme parks and lack of solar panels in the light of energy and clean water shortages.

What I did was show that your two examples were tiny percentages of the overall waste and pollution that this nation has. I pointed out there are simple things that can be done that would have a much larger impact on our fuel useage and water waste.

What you are pissed about is that I made your OP look foolish.

Another lie by you...as the chronology of the posts shows, your examples were met, discussed, deconstructed and put into proper perspective. As I described above, it was also shown how you "fill in the blanks" when facts fail you.


You want to condemn NASCAR, and try and make it seem as though it is responsible for more pollution and fuel useage than it is. The under-inflated tires I are a much larger issue. NASCAR and the businesses that surround it provide entertainment for tens of millions of people, and jobs for hundreds of thousands. Under-inflated tires are a sign of the laziness of the american driver. It is also an issue for as many as 80% of teh cars on the road. So it means you can't point fingers as a single group you wish to feel superior over.

You seem to think repeating your failed ploy will work this time. As the chronology of the posts shows, I already did this dance with you, and you missed a few steps. In other words... been there, done that.

As for the water parks, I haven't presented any hard numbers. But then, neither have you. I did, however, present a simple issue/cure that would do far more to help our water waste issues. And did so without taking away the fun and entertainment of the tens of millions of people who enjoy water parks. I brought up the fact that water parks often recycle their water and use the reclaimed water for their parks. You have shown nothing to counter this.

As I explained above, you previously made some statements as fact...and when challenged, you couldn't produce documentation to back up what you say. But undaunted, you just threw together some supposition and conjecture to cover your failure. You are repeating the same mistake here...and you've failed again. Please don't do it a third time, as it indicates insanity to repeat the same action over and over hoping for a different result.

Your OP was a typical "americans are bad" rant, pointing at specific groups as the culprits. Ignoring the entertainment values and employment values of both.

Actually, you typify EXACTLY what I talking about. You can't criticism about something you enjoy in any fashion, so you lash out like a petulant child with all sorts of accusations. Pity you can't logically or factually prove your little tantrum in a printed medium...because it's so easy to catch you in lies and BS.

I noticed you didn't really get into my point about the solar panels much...I wonder why?

So unless you've got something new to add (besides a repeat of the same with some new insults and lies), I'd say we're done.

 

[Taichiliberal]

Originally Posted by Taichiliberal
If as a nation we were serious about fuel conservation or curtailing air pollution, NASCAR wouldn't exist.

If as a nation we were serious about clean water and water conservation, we wouldn't have "water theme" amusement parks running during the summer months.

If as a nation we were serious about energy conservation, then solar panels would have been strategically placed and used in our urban/suburban areas during the summer months LONG ago.

But let's face it folks, the majority of Americans are not serious about this stuff.....until it screws with their personal space.

You seem to think this was accurate. Let me help you understand why its not.

#1 - We could be serious about fuel conservation and curtailing air pollution and still have NASCAR. There are many ways to cut fuel consumption that would conserve far more fuel than NASCAR uses. Also, we could end NASCAR and still be consuming far more fuel than we should and still be polluting more than we need to. So this point is inaccurate.


The point is that since this nation STILL is moving by creeps and crawls with regards to emission controls for our industry and automobiles and fuel conservation for the NECESSARY day to day living and work (as YOU so adequately assert), then why add insult to industry by perpetuating an industry that WASTES fuel and resources and does NOT adhere to even present day emission standards for the common driver or commercial driver? The "point" is not only accurate, but inescapable.

#2 - If we closed all the water parks, we would still not be conserving water or making a significant difference in clean water conservation. By the same token, we could do many things that would make a bigger difference.

Again, I emplore you to do some honest research into the last 5 years alone regarding water theme parks across the nation in relation to local water resources, ecology, land conservation, etc. If you cannot or will not, just say so and I'll provide (just this once) some examples as to what I'm getting at.

 

[Taichiliberal]

Originally Posted by Taichiliberal
Typical Southy bullshit.....he makes generalized statements and offers NO tangible, valid and documented evidence. Southy's response to my easily googled point regarding the Kennedy's is the time honored neocon retort, "liberal spin"...yet he won't DARE discuss details to support his accusation.

You want to discuss opinions, Southy...that's fine....but spare us all your time wasting Southern Man bullshit dance but trying to play your assertions, supposition and conjecture as valid facts. Give us news articles from valid news sources (not your neocon blogger bullshit) and then we'll have a basis for real discussion.

Why did liberals fight windmills in Boone, NC?

Why can't YOU provide a link to document your assertion? You got your ass handed to you regarding the Kennedy situation.....so are you going to man up and actually deal in reality or just continue the Southy BS dance?

 

[Taichiliberal]

Let me "dumb this down for you", I think it is childlike and simple to think that the "real resolution" would be silly "examples" based in feel good rubbish while ignoring any suggestion that makes sense. And that if we made cool things like the Tesla Roadster rather than crappy squiggly light bulbs that have to be handled by hazmat teams when you throw them away, we'd make a real difference.

So pointing out the flaw in the 5 year light bulb automatically discredits and criticism of continued excess in lieu of endangered resources? Are you fucking stupid or just insipidly stubborn to the point of stupidity, Damo?

You and other are making my point...you scream like banshees because someone points a valid criticism at what you consider a necessary enjoyment and way of life (or maybe you're just grinding an axe, who can say?), yet when it comes to logic and facts, you really can't dismiss out of hand what I'm getting at.

Imagine extremely fast Roadsters racing on NASCAR day... I could see that. You do know that NASCAR is based on regular cars that are sold, no? If they make these cars not suck, not tiny killer roller skates that collapse at the first sign of a truck in their rear view mirror, if they make them so I can pull a horse trailer behind them, you'd see a difference. Banning NASCAR is a worthless symbolic gesture that would be resolved when stock cars were the electric vehicles you'd rather see us all driving. Make them not suck, that is the real solution.

So instead of just using the testing fields/roads and such that ALL major manufacturers used in their R&D before mass producing their cars to sell...IN ADDITION, let's just continue with numerous and varied road races that DON'T use the emission standards you see in commerical and private automobiles...let's just keep all those racecar tracks/stadiums and such going year round until NASCAR comes along..and let's keep an entire industry that produces products SOLELY FOR THAT PURPOSE going also. Hell, we can spare the oil, surely the environment can take the run off and emissions, right?

 

[Taichiliberal]

Seeing NASCAR go away wouldn't bother me. The fact that they call it "stock car" racing, and the only thing stock is probably the battery tray makes it a waste of my time. I've been to a couple of races when I was much younger. It was loud as hell and I got drunk. Not much of a sport, in my mind.

But as an indicator of our lack of commitment to saving the planet, it is laughable.

The only thing laughable is your inability to defend your misguided righteousness on what is and isn't permissable to point out in the human condition as a sign of selfishness or callousness, or stubborness that is detrimental to our well being.

 

[Taichiliberal]

I love limosine liberals, my sister is one I might be one.
Here we have one for sure. Taichi most definatley drives and worse probably fly's on occasion.
Here's a clue only a tiny percentage of far left of Pelosi lefties care and the percentage of that group who aren't hypocrites is even smaller.

My sister freezes crabs so they won't feel the pain as much. She works in Berkley and drives a BMW. I can't be the only one who thinks that's funny

You can speak for yourself and your sister, but don't assume you can speak for me...especially if you miss the point of what I trying to say here.

In my lifetime it took about 20 years to get emission standards and such on cars to the level we have now....and there is STILL debate on how it could be done better.

I can do all I can to make sure my personal car is full efficient and with SOTA emission controls, etc. But what's the point if I spend all year going to various states to race a car that doesn't conform to those standards at all?

 

[Taichiliberal]

TCL says...

Do a little more research....as to the amount of trial races prior to the major events, the qualifying races, the various "little races" throughout the country and the year to get up to the main event. Find out how many gallons are burned, what's the emission rates, how much land is razed to become tracks, accomodate fans, etc. There's more to "Nascar" than just the one event.

Hilarious...Obama sucks up more fuel on one or two dates with is wife flying to NY on AF1 with all the Sec. service men, etc.

Really? Who told you that...Limbaugh? Hannity? WND? Or did you just have another mindfart of Bravo proportions?

Al Gore probably uses more to fuel than that to heat his swimming pools in his various mansions.....we won't even get into John Kerry and his homes....

More neocon ramblings from the intellectually bankrupt Bravo. Pity he can't actually debate the issue...Bravo indeed.

 

[Taichiliberal]

Bravo wrote:

Hilarious...Obama sucks up more fuel on one or two dates with is wife flying to NY on AF1 with all the Sec. service men, etc.

Al Gore probably uses more to fuel than that to heat his swimming pools in his various mansions.....we won't even get into John Kerry and his homes....

Those would be Teresa Heinz Kerry's homes...

Ahhh, but while you two morons are blowing smoke, the FACT that your god Reagan dismantled the solar panels that Carter installed speaks volumes.

 

[Taichiliberal]

The cries about Obama burning more fuel in his business trips, and the nonsense about Gore, Kerry or whoever, are not much different than the NASCAR whining.

Everyone knows we have to change the way we use fuel, change the fuels we use, and try and slow the destruction. But everyone wants to point at someone else as the worst culprit.

Another fine example of the dangers of having such a partisan political arena. Too many think more important for their side to win than for anything to get donw.

Again, you miss the point.

The examples I gave are NOT the "worst culprits", but merely the most visible and adequate examples of how our society is slow to change wasteful ways because we consider it a cultural right.

And everyone who wails like a stuck pig when such and example is exposed demonstrate exactly the problem I am pointing out.

WE DON'T DESERVE THE EXCESSES IF WE CAN'T GET A HANDLE ON THE NECESSITIES.

 

[Taichiliberal]

No, Sol, its just that there's a lot of hypocrites running around in the environmental debate. Conservatives don't pretend to be saving the planet when they drive around in SUVs or attend boring auto races, because usually they just engage in conservation projects such as recycling, preserving lands and forests, maintaining national parks. Its leftists who pelt us with the threat of carbon credits and whatnot.

Oh give me a fucking break with your GOP sucking bullshit!

Conservatives a'la Reagan, Daddy Bush and the Shrub were NOT friends of recycling, preserving lands and forests or maintaining national parks....just look at the funding records under their administrations by the GOP.

Carbon credits was a wimp out COMPROMISE to the Party of NO refusing to have industry and corporations come to terms with the REALITY of AGW.

 

[WinterBorn]

Actually, you typify EXACTLY what I talking about. You can't criticism about something you enjoy in any fashion, so you lash out like a petulant child with all sorts of accusations. Pity you can't logically or factually prove your little tantrum in a printed medium...because it's so easy to catch you in lies and BS.

I noticed you didn't really get into my point about the solar panels much...I wonder why?

So unless you've got something new to add (besides a repeat of the same with some new insults and lies), I'd say we're done.

Sorry, but I an a fan of neither NASCAR nor Waterparks. I came after your original posts for the reasons stated.

You post something with a condescending attitude and expect it to be welcomed with open arms? The examples you used were more about social standing and your own angst than about making a difference.

You deconstructed nothing.

 

[WinterBorn]

You can speak for yourself and your sister, but don't assume you can speak for me...especially if you miss the point of what I trying to say here.

In my lifetime it took about 20 years to get emission standards and such on cars to the level we have now....and there is STILL debate on how it could be done better.

I can do all I can to make sure my personal car is full efficient and with SOTA emission controls, etc. But what's the point if I spend all year going to various states to race a car that doesn't conform to those standards at all?

Again. look at the differences between what is burned by NASCAR and what is wasted by the uncaring population. Go after the biggest offenders first. That would save enough to make NASCAR not a problem.

And no, they don't conform to emission standards on the track. But most emission problems and wasted fuel come from poorly run engines. I kinda doubt that applies here.

 

[Minister of Truth]

Oh give me a fucking break with your GOP sucking bullshit!

Conservatives a'la Reagan, Daddy Bush and the Shrub were NOT friends of recycling, preserving lands and forests or maintaining national parks....just look at the funding records under their administrations by the GOP.

Carbon credits was a wimp out COMPROMISE to the Party of NO refusing to have industry and corporations come to terms with the REALITY of AGW.

Any economic policy that comes out in response to AGW is going to be retarded, whether it be carbon credits or anything else.