With us or against us

Perhaps hezbolla will repent as well. who knows ?
If Israel employs terroristic tactics we should quit supporting them imho.

I sure am glad you know gods plan for Israel :)
 
And Jewish hands wrote that down in the bible Brent.
A big gap there Brent. What has happened with israel since the biblical accounts ?
Vengance is mine sayeth the lord. Or do you ignore that one ?
 
uscitizen said:
And Jewish hands wrote that down in the bible Brent.
A big gap there Brent. What has happened with israel since the biblical accounts ?
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The Bible is the inspired word of God. I trust what it says.

Vengance is mine sayeth the lord. Or do you ignore that one ?
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I don't ignore it - I simply don't interpret it as meaning lay down and die. Jehovah commanded Israel to kill thousands of people. Exodus says "the Lord is a man of war." You interpret that.
 
Brent said:
The Bible is the inspired word of God. I trust what it says.



I don't ignore it - I simply don't interpret it as meaning lay down and die. Jehovah commanded Israel to kill thousands of people. Exodus says "the Lord is a man of war." You interpret that.
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So, you're willing to admit that the bible is open to interpretation . . . except when that interpretation differs from yours.
 
But if god and jesus are one and the same then is jesus a man of war ? The bible does not seem to indicate that Jesus was a man of war.
 
Brent said:
The Bible is the inspired word of God. I trust what it says.



I don't ignore it - I simply don't interpret it as meaning lay down and die. Jehovah commanded Israel to kill thousands of people. Exodus says "the Lord is a man of war." You interpret that.
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What else does it say and teach us about our God Brent? Here you go again twisting and using his words without incorporating the WHOLE picture of God that we are given in the Bible...all you do is make people RUN from Christianity if it is ANYTHING like what you seem to be representing...by using just one line like the Lord is a God of war....all on its own without giving the context and without knowing God and his Justness.....and without giving meaning behind this one statement regarding this God of War.... I hope I made sense?

For example, don't we also know we have a God of Love, and don't we know thru scripture that we have a God of Justice and a God that represents Truth and a God of Forgiveness. etc..all of these descriptions is the Same God, one God Brent...NOT JUST A GOD OF WAR...

So, keeping all of this in mind, all that you know about our God, to represent Him as if he is the one that caused the inhumane torture and killing in our prisons, and that He was the one that caused the Iraqis to be attacked by us, or He was the one that caused all of the innocent in Lebanon to be killed... just because you read somewhere that He is a God of war...without taking in to consideration that there is an evil pressense on Earth and without taking in to consideration all of His other attributes that come in to play, like He is a Just God, and a Loving God, and a Forgiving God is representing Him poorly to say the least imo!

You are denying the pressense of Evil, you are denying free will of man by assuming that God is the Evil that has caused all of these things to happen....?


Do you believe that God is Evil Brent, or do you believe that God created and gave us as a gift of some sort the evil that is present on this earth?

Did or does God cause the Evil that causes neighbors to War? This is all a work of God...the lies, the murders, the unjust wars over the years?

you do not represent my God, if that is what you are saying....

Honestly, I just don't get it?

And btw, what exactly is misrepresented by Jesus's turn the other cheek and Love thy enemy verses?
care
 
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Brent said:
I don't ignore it - I simply don't interpret it as meaning lay down and die. Jehovah commanded Israel to kill thousands of people. Exodus says "the Lord is a man of war." You interpret that.
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Brent that passage came from The Song of Moses. Ex 15:3 to be exact. Why did you ignore Exodus 15:1-2 or the verses following it? This was a song in praise of God from the people of Israel when He freed them from captivity. It is a song of jubilation and honor to God. It had nothing to do with human war or Jehovah commanding Israel to kill thousands of people. You are being disengenuous by insinuating that "Jehovah commanded Israel to kill thousands of people" is associated with "the Lord is a man of war".

It is a song. A song sung to God in Praise. The people of Israel sang praise to God because he had rescued them from the Egyptians. In this passage, Israel declared God to be a man of war? Do you interpret that to literally mean God is a man, a warrior?

If so, does that mean when the Pharisees declared that Jesus drove out demons in the name of Beelzebub, the Prince of Demons, that Jesus literally drove out demons in the name of Beelzebub? Matthew 12:23-25 By your words, you accuse Jesus of being Satanic.

How about Mark 3:22 when the teachers of the law claimed he was possessed? In Mark 3:21 his own family claimed he was out of his mind. Was he?

It is hard to deny that there are differences between the God of the Old Testament and the God of the New Testament. We tend to look at the Old Testament God with fear and trepidation because we look at the Law as confining and condemning. However, Martin Luther taught differently. He taught that the Law was given to us not to condemn us but rather to aid us in seeing our need for salvation.

At times I wonder how you can love Jehovah. You only seem to understand the condemnation that the Law casts on all of us. You never seem to understand that there really is a God out there who loves you and does not want you or anyone else to perish. How could you possibly love the God you portray as being God?

Immie
 
Immanuel,

Where does the Bible indicate that the song is incorrect? If the song were blasphemous, why would it be included in the Bible? From my perspective, the song affirms the dual nature of God: God loves but He also hates. Take a look at the various passages which demonstrate what I'm saying:

http://www.gotquestions.org/war-Bible.html

Question: "What does the Bible say about war?"

Answer: Many people make the mistake of believing the Bible says, “You shall not kill,” and seek to apply this command to war. However, the Bible actually says, “You shall not murder” (Exodus 20:13). The Hebrew word literally means “the intentional, premeditated killing of another person with malice.” God often ordered the Israelites to go to war with other nations (1 Samuel 15:3; Joshua 4:13). God ordered the death penalty for numerous crimes (Exodus 21:12; 21:15; 22:19; Leviticus 20:11). So, God is not against killing in all circumstances, but rather only murder. War is never a good thing, but sometimes it is a necessary thing. In a world filled with sinful people (Romans 3:10-18), war is inevitable. Sometimes the only way to keep sinful people from doing great harm is by going to war with them.

War is a terrible thing! War is always the result of sin (Romans 3:10-18). In the Old Testament, God ordered the Israelites to: “Take vengeance on the Midianites for the Israelites” (Numbers 31:2). See also Deuteronomy 20:16-17, “However, in the cities of the nations the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. Completely destroy them--the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites--as the LORD your God has commanded you.” Exodus 17:16 proclaims, “He said, "For hands were lifted up to the throne of the LORD. The LORD will be at war against the Amalekites from generation to generation." Also, 1 Samuel 15:18, “Go and completely destroy those wicked people, the Amalekites; make war on them until you have wiped them out.” So, obviously God is not against all war. Jesus is always in perfect agreement with the Father (John 10:30), so we cannot argue that war was only God’s will in the Old Testament. God does not change (Malachi 3:6; James 1:17).

Jesus’ Second Coming also is exceedingly violent. Revelation 19:11-21 proclaims, “I saw heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse, whose rider is called Faithful and True. With justice he judges and makes war. His eyes are like blazing fire, and on his head are many crowns. He has a name written on him that no one knows but he himself. He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God. The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean. Out of his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. "He will rule them with an iron scepter." He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty. On his robe and on his thigh he has this name written: KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS. And I saw an angel standing in the sun, who cried in a loud voice to all the birds flying in midair, "Come, gather together for the great supper of God, so that you may eat the flesh of kings, generals, and mighty men, of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, small and great." Then I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies gathered together to make war against the rider on the horse and his army. But the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who had performed the miraculous signs on his behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped his image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur. The rest of them were killed with the sword that came out of the mouth of the rider on the horse, and all the birds gorged themselves on their flesh.”

It is an error to say that God never supports a war. Jesus is not a pacifist. In a world filled with evil people, sometimes a war is necessary to prevent even greater evil. If Hitler had not been defeated by World War II, how many more millions of Jews would have been killed? If the Civil War had not been fought, how much longer would African Americans have had to suffer as slaves? We must all remember to base our beliefs of the Bible, not on our emotions (2 Timothy 3:16-17).

Ecclesiastes 3:8 declares, “there is…a time to love and a time to hate, a time for war and a time for peace. In a world filled with sin, hatred, and evil (Romans 3:10-18), war is inevitable. Some wars are more “just” than others, but all wars are ultimately the result of sin. Christians should not desire war, but neither are Christians to oppose the government God has placed in authority over them (Romans 13:1-4; 1 Peter 2:17). The most important thing we can be doing in a time of war is to be praying for godly wisdom for our leaders, praying for the safety of our military, praying for quick resolution to the conflict, and praying for minimum casualties – on both sides of the conflict (Philippians 4:6-7).
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We know, as the above article states, that Jesus is always in perfect agreement with the Father, for He is One with the Father. So you cannot rightly argue Jesus is anti-war and the Father was pro-war. They're the same God!

And I really don't appeciate you constantly questioning whether I love God or not based on this. Yes I am sinful and I've made mistakes, lying being one of my biggest faults, and because of that I can understand why you might question it sometimes, but why now? Being pro-war is no reason for you to question my faith. Do you also question the faith of the undoubtedly several members of your church who are pro-Bush and pro-war?

You speak of grace, and that I don't know of grace, but let's be honest here, Immie, you never show me ANY grace whatsoever. :) I'll go "suck on a rock" now.

Care4all said:
precisely...
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Read this Care4all -

Christ's purpose on earth wasn't to start wars; He came to redeem mankind. However, while in spiritual form prior to His birth, Jesus (Jehovah, the LORD) most certainly did support wars. No, wait, not just support - He COMMANDED wars.

http://www.gotquestions.org/war-Bible.html

I don't think my faith deserves to be questioned when there is enough in the Bible to support what I believe, while in contrast there is nothing particularly anti-war in the scriptures. If you disagree, fine, we can agree to disagree. But at least admit I'm not basing my beliefs on nothing here...everything I'm saying is based on a legitimate argument of Biblical interpretation. Speaking of which, how do you interpret this? "To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven: ... A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace." (Ecclesiastes 3:1,8)

You accuse me of taking a single verse and twisting it. Well did you stop to think you might be doing just that when you quote Matthew 5:39, a single verse, without posting it in context? If you read the New Living Translation of the Bible, or the NIV or NASB, you'll see a heading above verses 21-26 which says, "Teaching about Anger." Jesus is saying we must keep our anger in check, not that we can't defend ourselves and not that we can't go to war. :)

God doesn't contradict Himself.

I won't apologize for not believing God is an author of confusion...

God bless.
 
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[edit...double post]

Oh, one thing I will add (don't miss my reply at the end of page 2) to support my belief that the Iraq War is necessary. It's a quote from a great man named Edmund Burke. He said, "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Saddam Hussein butchered 100,000 of his own people and aided terrorists for the destruction of Israel. Based on those two facts alone, I for one consider Saddam to be an evil person, who deserved to be removed from power.

Do I agree with everything going on over there? Hardly. But I support the concept of removing unGodly rulers from power whenever we have the means do to that. I consider it our duty. :)

If I don't love God because of that, then perhaps we worship completely different gods to begin with. Have a nice evening/morning and God bless,

Brent
 
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Brent said:
[edit...double post]

Oh, one thing I will add (don't miss my reply at the end of page 2) to support my belief that the Iraq War is necessary. It's a quote from a great man named Edmund Burke. He said, "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Saddam Hussein butchered 100,000 of his own people and aided terrorists for the destruction of Israel. Based on those two facts alone, I for one consider Saddam to be an evil person, who deserved to be removed from power.

Do I agree with everything going on over there? Hardly. But I support the concept of removing unGodly rulers from power whenever we have the means do to that. I consider it our duty. :)

If I don't love God because of that, then perhaps we worship completely different gods to begin with. Have a nice evening/morning and God bless,

Brent
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How on Earth can you attempt to justify our invasion and occupation of Iraq as a humanitarian deal? Do you have any idea how absolutely incredulous that is? I hear the Hannity and Limbaugh lovers asking the same stupid question over and over: "Is the world better off without Saddam Hussein in power?"

The correct answer is that if it had happened in a vacuum, then yes the world would be better off, but IT DID NOT HAPPEN IN A VACUUM!!! Thousands of americans have died, and multiple tens of thousands of Iraqis have died. Ill tell you that more innocent iraqi civillians have died in this war than americans in the WTC.

If you think we'll win anything this way, then you are an ostrich.
 
Where does the Bible indicate that the song is incorrect? If the song were blasphemous, why would it be included in the Bible? From my perspective, the song affirms the dual nature of God: God loves but He also hates. Take a look at the various passages which demonstrate what I'm saying:

Where did I say it was incorrect? I said that the people of Israel made a statement in praise of God. I did not say anything about the Bible being incorrect.

"You speak of grace, and that I don't know of grace, but let's be honest here, Immie, you never show me ANY grace whatsoever. I'll go "suck on a rock" now."

If I could show you anywhere near the Grace that God has given you I would. However, you should not take my statements as being statements against you. It seems that you and I have very different views of the Gospel and of the meaning of the Old Testament. When I comment on your statements it is rarely (though not always) in anger or disgust. Usually, it is in an effort to show a different point of view. You concentrate on a God of Wrath. I concentrate on a God of Love.

Again, I ask these questions:

a) Do you interpret that (song) to literally mean God is a man, a warrior?

b) If so, does that mean when the Pharisees declared that Jesus drove out demons in the name of Beelzebub, the Prince of Demons, that Jesus literally drove out demons in the name of Beelzebub? Matthew 12:23-25 By your words, you accuse Jesus of being Satanic.

How about Mark 3:22 when the teachers of the law claimed he was possessed? In Mark 3:21 his own family claimed he was out of his mind. Was he?

c) How could you possibly love the God you portray as being God?

Please don't ignore them again.

Immie
 
Please don't ignore them again.
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Fine then, perhaps you can address the article I posted along with the enormous Biblical support therein. Do you deny that our God (Jehovah) has been responsible for wars? Do you deny that Jesus and the Father are One, in perfect agreement with one another?

Or is the Bible incorrect?

a) Do you interpret that (song) to literally mean God is a man, a warrior?
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No, I interpret it figuratively. Obviously God is not really a "man." I am simply using it as a statement which I've backed up with other supportiving scripture. I believe I've demonstrated that God has no problem whatsoever with war. You have yet to prove otherwise. ;)

b) If so, does that mean when the Pharisees declared that Jesus drove out demons in the name of Beelzebub, the Prince of Demons, that Jesus literally drove out demons in the name of Beelzebub? Matthew 12:23-25 By your words, you accuse Jesus of being Satanic.
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Perhaps I ignored this because it seems completely irrelevant? What in the world does that have to do with anything?

How about Mark 3:22 when the teachers of the law claimed he was possessed? In Mark 3:21 his own family claimed he was out of his mind. Was he?
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Of course not. Wicked men make all sorts of claims throughout the Bible, in a setting which demonstrates their folly. We already know the Pharasees are men who are righteous on the outside, evil on the inside; they cared only about appearance. Anyway. What does this have to do with the song in Exodus?

c) How could you possibly love the God you portray as being God?
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You love Jesus, Immanuel. Clearly, however, you do not wish to understand of His Father in Heaven. I've posted verses which demonstate that He is, indeed, a warrior God. And remember: Jesus and the Father are One, in perfect agreement with one another. What does that tell us?

_________

Do you reject the Holy Trinity?

Also, do you believe God punishes us, or does He allow us to do whatever we want to do?
 
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Beefy said:
If you think we'll win anything this way, then you are an ostrich.
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I guess you win with hearts and minds right? what a shitbrick!

Your other cronies here had a post about how soldiers were getting sick from depleted uranium, however you would swear that all this stuff is useless as it was from the original gulf war or older, then why the fuck are soldiers currently getting sick from it?

I know, invading Iraq has created more terrorism right? I mean afterall there was 911 but that was before the Iraq invasion, so what ones took places since??? Geez I forgot already....:rolleyes:

Uhh, take it easy on the twinkies there Beefy...
 
and we shoulda known about Osama...Hell.... Ollie North warned us about him during the Reagan years.....right evil?
 
maineman said:
and we shoulda known about Osama...Hell.... Ollie North warned us about him during the Reagan years.....right evil?
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Right mainecoon, I know you spent a couple years over their so you are the authority on all, my mistake shitbrick!
 
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