Zelensky bans 11 opposition political parties

[BartenderElite]

fuck off. Ukraine is corrupt
it has the trappings of democracy but the various post I showed it is far from such.

You can't understand the PREDICATE for war was set by NATO/US.
That in no way excuses the invasion by Putin
You are a simpleminded fool

I'm just presenting facts. I'm not getting personal about it.

You always have to fall back on the "simpleminded" stuff. It's telling. "Ukraine is corrupt" is also a completely inaccurate characterization. It's just something you say.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

I'm just presenting facts. I'm not getting personal about it.

You always have to fall back on the "simpleminded" stuff. It's telling. "Ukraine is corrupt" is also a completely inaccurate characterization. It's just something you say.

Dookie is a Russophile passing info to Putin from his condo in Florida.

 

[dukkha]

I'm just presenting facts. I'm not getting personal about it.

You always have to fall back on the "simpleminded" stuff. It's telling. "Ukraine is corrupt" is also a completely inaccurate characterization. It's just something you say.

you dont present any fact. you never use any cites. you drool out an opinion and call it a fact..
When you are not doing that you parade your ignorance - unable to post a decent rebuttal

I suggest you look at what CYPRESS posts for ex. we dont agree on anything except some religious philosophy . But I respect his posts -sanctimonious partisanship for sure, but he uses fact to build a case
and can argue a case instead of whine and opine

 

[BartenderElite]

you dont present any fact. you never use any cites. you drool out an opinion and call it a fact..
When you are not doing that you parade your ignorance - unable to post a decent rebuttal

I suggest you look at what CYPRESS posts for ex. we dont agree on anything except some religious philosophy . But I respect his posts -sanctimonious partisanship for sure, but he uses fact to build a case
and can argue a case instead of whine and opine

Thanks for the suggestion. I'm not really interested in impressing you, though. And again - the constant parade of lame insults you seem to think substitutes for actual debate is meaningless to me. I usually just shrug.

You don't present facts, either. No one rational thinks that both Putin & Zelensky are dictators, and this is all just a matter of degree. No one thinks Putin had "no recourse" after the U.S. "shoved him into war." I mean, that's Russian State TV-level propaganda.

What Zelensky has done in trying to preserve his country's independence & sovereignty in extreme circumstances is astounding, and nothing but admirable. To even suggest he's "like" Putin in any respect is beyond comprehension.

 

[dukkha]

Thanks for the suggestion. I'm not really interested in impressing you, though. And again - the constant parade of lame insults you seem to think substitutes for actual debate is meaningless to me. I usually just shrug.

You don't present facts, either. No one rational thinks that both Putin & Zelensky are dictators, and this is all just a matter of degree.

What Zelensky has done in trying to preserve his country's independence & sovereignty is astounding, and nothing but admirable. To even suggest he's "like" Putin in any respect is beyond comprehension.

No one said Zelensky is a "dictator"..hell even labeling Putin as such is lame.
Putin is an autocrat -different then a dictator

as I said you think in simpleminded manner - it's not an insult, it's a description.

Ukraine is corrupt Zelensky is doing exactly what his predecessors did .
we are not "defending democracy" which is the major theme of this thread..

Other themes as well such as building up Zelensky
and using Uk/him as a proxy war against Russia pre-invasion.
Refusing to negotiate with Russia over their red lines is another.
NATO expansion as a predicate is one more

Which is not to justify the invasion either.

 

[BartenderElite]

No one said Zelensky is a "dictator"..hell even labeling Putin as such is lame.
Putin is an autocrat -different then a dictator

as I said you think in simpleminded manner - it's not an insult, it's a description.

Ukraine is corrupt Zelensky is doing exactly what his predecessors did .
we are not "defending democracy" which is the major theme of this thread..

Other themes as well such as building up Zelensky
and using Uk/him as a proxy war against Russia pre-invasion.
Refusing to negotiate with Russia over their red lines is another.
NATO expansion as a predicate is one more

Which is not to justify the invasion either.

You said that the U.S. "shoved" Putin into war, and that he had "no recourse."

I'm not sure if you realize it - but that's justifying his decision to invade. Sorry. It's like saying someone is simpleminded, then saying "but that's not an insult." If you think we forced Putin's hand and that he had no other choice, that's a clear justification you're offering for his behavior.

It's also inaccurate to try to portray the Ukraine as a non-democratic country. Banning parties w/ ties to an invading country is logical; it's not a power grab. That doesn't mean it doesn't have problems, but not anywhere near the degree that you're potraying.

 

[McRocket]

Thanks for the suggestion. I'm not really interested in impressing you, though. And again - the constant parade of lame insults you seem to think substitutes for actual debate is meaningless to me. I usually just shrug.

You don't present facts, either. No one rational thinks that both Putin & Zelensky are dictators, and this is all just a matter of degree. No one thinks Putin had "no recourse" after the U.S. "shoved him into war." I mean, that's Russian State TV-level propaganda.

What Zelensky has done in trying to preserve his country's independence & sovereignty in extreme circumstances is astounding, and nothing but admirable. To even suggest he's "like" Putin in any respect is beyond comprehension.

1) you have an annoying habit of speaking for EVERYONE and shoving your ideas down their throats.
You have NO IDEA if anyone else believes Putin had recourse or not.
You are assuming.

2) and what Zelenskyy is doing is admirable TO YOU.
There are lots of people whom TOTALLY disagree with this war and who think Zelenskyy is full of shit.

- forcing all men 20-60 to fight whether they want to or not is NOT 'admirable'.
What the FUCK is admirable about forcing other people to die for a fight they do not want to take part in?
NOTHING.

- separating families that leave Ukraine is not admirable.

- removing many opposition parties - many of whom are NOT pro Russian and some are, in fact, (apparently) anti-Russian is NOT admirable.
- and what the FUCK is admirable about refusing to declare your major cities as 'Open Cities' to avoid their total destruction with gigantic, civilian casualties? That is admirable to you? You are fucked in the head if that is admirable in your mind.

You have shown TIME AND AGAIN that you turn a blind eye to ANYTHING someone you admire does.
ANYTHING.
You are miles from unbiased on this.
Zelenskyy is your new hero.
That means you will love EVERYTHING he does.
And insult ANYONE who dares disagree.

3) Ohh...and save the bullshit.
I have seen you insult people a SHIT LOAD of times.
So crying that all dukkha does is throw insults around is laughable coming from you.

Have a nice day.

 

[BartenderElite]

1) you have an annoying habit of speaking for EVERYONE and shoving your ideas down their throats.
You have NO IDEA if anyone else believes Putin had recourse or not.
You are assuming.

2) and what Zelenskyy is doing is admirable TO YOU.
There are lots of people whom TOTALLY disagree with this war and who think Zelenskyy is full of shit.

- forcing all men 20-60 to fight whether they want to or not is NOT 'admirable'.
What the FUCK is admirable about forcing other people to die for a fight they do not want to take part in?
NOTHING.

- separating families that leave Ukraine is not admirable.

- removing ALL opposition parties - many of whom are NOT pro Russian and some are, in fact, (apparently) anti-Russian is NOT admirable.
- and what the FUCK is admirable about refusing to declare your major cities as 'Open Cities' to avoid their total destruction with gigantic, civilian casualties? That is admirable to you? You are fucked in the head if that is admirable in your mind.

You have shown TIME AND AGAIN that you turn a blind eye to ANYTHING someone you admire does.
ANYTHING.
You are miles from unbiased on this.
Zelenskyy is your new hero.
That means you will love EVERYTHING he does.
And insult ANYONE who dares disagree.

3) Ohh...and save the bullshit.
I have seen you insult people a SHIT LOAD of times.
So crying that all dukkha does is throw insults around is laughable coming from you.

Have a nice day.

So much wrong here.

I certainly don't insult anyone on the level you characterize. I've never called a single poster an idiot or a fool - dukkha's go-to. I poke fun at some posters, but that's not the same as insulting them. Dukkha does this constantly. There is no comparison there. I'd be curious if you could even find one post where I call another poster a derogatory name or really insult them.

As for #2, yes - it is admirable to me. Am I allowed to say that? I wasn't speaking for anyone when I wrote that. That's my opinion.

However, you claiming that this necessarily means that I've shown "time and again" that I'll turn a blind eye to anything someone I admire does is just wild speculation. You really have nothing to back that up, or that I'll love everything he does as a result. It's kind of ironic after you claimed that I try to speak for everyone.

You also claim he removed ALL opposition parties. Do you want to stand by that? First, that they were "removed." And 2nd, that it was ALL parties in the Ukraine?

I know, I know. I've got a "I'm done here...good day" coming. And that's not an insult to state that.

 

[McRocket]

So much wrong here.

I certainly don't insult anyone on the level you characterize. I've never called a single poster an idiot or a fool - dukkha's go-to. I poke fun at some posters, but that's not the same as insulting them. Dukkha does this constantly. There is no comparison there.

I doubt that.
An ad hominem is an ad hominem...no matter what the intent.
And I certainly recall you tossing around ad hominem's at people.

As for #2, yes - it is admirable to me. Am I allowed to say that? I wasn't speaking for anyone when I wrote that. That's my opinion.

Yes or no?
Forcing everyone 20-60 to fight is 'admirable'?
Yes or no, please?

And if yes - please enlighten us what the fuck is 'admirable' about that?
Forcing a man with a young family who need him, to end his life to defend a government he does NOT believe in?
What the FUCK is admirable about that?
WELL???

However, you claiming that this necessarily means that I've shown "time and again" that I'll turn a blind eye to anything someone I admire does is just wild speculation. You really have nothing to back that up, or that I'll love everything he does as a result. It's kind of ironic after you claimed that I try to speak for everyone.

Sorry - I got you mixed up with Biden-whatever the fuckhis name is.
But the fact you are admiring a fucking tyrant like Zelenskyy speaks volumes.

You also claim he removed ALL opposition parties. Do you want to stand by that? First, that they were "removed." And 2nd, that it was ALL parties in the Ukraine?

Typo...my mistake.

Way to pick on a typo and ignore all the other facts.

 

[BartenderElite]

I doubt that.
An ad hominem is an ad hominem...no matter what the intent.
And I certainly recall you tossing around ad hominem's at people.

Yes or no?
Forcing everyone 20-60 to fight is 'admirable'?
Yes or no, please?

And if yes - please enlighten us what the fuck is 'admirable' about that?
Forcing a man with a young family who need him, to end his life to defend a government he does NOT believe in?
What the FUCK is admirable about that?
WELL???

Sorry - I got you mixed up with Biden-whatever the fuckhis name is.
But the fact you are admiring a fucking tyrant like Zelenskyy speaks volumes.


Typo...my mistake.

Way to pick on a typo and ignore all the other facts.

What "facts?" For starters, you went from saying you saw a "shit load of insults" from me, to "recalling" that I tossed a few ad homs out there. I'd be curious if you could find even one, honestly.

But maybe you were confusing me w/ Biden-whatever on that too?

You corrected your typo, which was good. How was I supposed to assume it was a typo? It was even in all caps, and clear misinformation before you corrected it.

I don't agree w/ everything Zelensky is doing, no. I don't think forcing people to fight is necessarily admirable - but it's hardly unique in a time of war. The circumstances are extreme, and this is a desperate country.

What do you think happens to the people of the Ukraine if Russia installs a puppet government? Their backs are against the wall. They're trying to preserve their independence & freedom, which I can relate to as an American.

I stand by my opinions. I will endeavor to not make it seem like I'm speaking for others so much, and I apologize that this offended.

 

[dukkha]

So much wrong here.

I certainly don't insult anyone on the level you characterize. I've never called a single poster an idiot or a fool - dukkha's go-to. I poke fun at some posters, but that's not the same as insulting them. Dukkha does this constantly.
There is no comparison there. I'd be curious if you could even find one post where I call another poster a derogatory name or really insult them.

As for #2, yes - it is admirable to me. Am I allowed to say that? I wasn't speaking for anyone when I wrote that. That's my opinion.

However, you claiming that this necessarily means that I've shown "time and again" that I'll turn a blind eye to anything someone I admire does is just wild speculation. You really have nothing to back that up, or that I'll love everything he does as a result. It's kind of ironic after you claimed that I try to speak for everyone.

You also claim he removed ALL opposition parties. Do you want to stand by that? First, that they were "removed." And 2nd, that it was ALL parties in the Ukraine?

I know, I know. I've got a "I'm done here...good day" coming. And that's not an insult to state that.

I have little tolerance for fools and trolls. I dont say you are either,but that's my mindset

At best they waste your time -more damaging is raising their low bar to acceptable debate.
Brings down the level of informed discourse

Throwing insults is the JPP way. But it's only not trolling if you can back up your points.
I make my points as clear with best language & cites and building logical concepts up from facts
and events. I generally think before I post ,then I compose and edit.

I also attempt to reply to the other persons concerns.
Of course i've tossed aside a few posts with tangential BS - but mostly i will debate point by point
if the other person is capable

maybe my karma has become sullied with excessive hanging out here...lol...i'll concede that much

 

[McRocket]

What "facts?" For starters, you went from saying you saw a "shit load of insults" from me, to "recalling" that I tossed a few ad homs out there. I'd be curious if you could find even one, honestly.

But maybe you were confusing me w/ Biden-whatever on that too?

Maybe I was. If so - I apologize. But you have plenty of insults to go around just today.
Like: https://www.justplainpolitics.com/s...o-define-the-word-woman&p=5020592#post5020592
You insulted EVERY Republican.
https://www.justplainpolitics.com/s...ition-political-parties&p=5020409#post5020409
https://www.justplainpolitics.com/s...ition-political-parties&p=5019417#post5019417
Calling some a liar. Please look up what 'liar' means. You CANNOT know if that person lied or not unless they admitted to doing so. You owe him/her an apology.

I will admit that you insult far less than some around here.
And yes - it appears I DID get you and BidenWhatever mixed up....again, sorry.

You corrected your typo, which was good. How was I supposed to assume it was a typo? It was even in all caps, and clear misinformation before you corrected it.

I don't agree w/ everything Zelensky is doing, no. I don't think forcing people to fight is necessarily admirable - but it's hardly unique in a time of war. The circumstances are extreme, and this is a desperate country.

What do you think happens to the people of the Ukraine if Russia installs a puppet government? Their backs are against the wall. They're trying to preserve their independence & freedom, which I can relate to as an American.

I stand by my opinions. I will endeavor to not make it seem like I'm speaking for others so much, and I apologize that this offended.

I will ask it again.

Yes or no?
Forcing everyone 20-60 to fight is 'admirable'?
Yes or no, ONLY please?

And if 'yes' - please enlighten us what the fuck is 'admirable' about that?
Forcing a man with a young family who need him, to end his life to defend a government he does NOT believe in?
What the F is admirable about that?

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Yes or no?
Forcing everyone 20-60 to fight is 'admirable'?
Yes or no, please?

Necessary. If the Russians invaded the US ala' Red Dawn and Biden passed a mandatory draft of all 20-60 year olds, is there any doubt that all the JPP Putin cocksuckers would bitch about it?

 

[Truth Detector]

It is extraordinary that the people who cheered on the Kraken lies, the Stop the Steal riot, and all of Trump's attempts to thwart the election results are now such passionate critics of the purity of democracy in Ukraine.

As opposed to all the attempts by the Democratic Party of Lying Jackasses to thwart the election results of Geroge Bush and Trump? Just stop you pathetic hypocritical sociopathic liar.

It doesn't matter if Ukraine is a democracy, a monarchy, or an oligarchy. They did not deserve to be invaded, their cities reduced to ash, or to be the victims of some of the worst crimes against humanity in Europe since Adolph Hitler.

STRAWMAN alert! No one has sided with Putin.

 

[Cypress]

the place is notoriously corrupt
post 211 -
western media expose and by NYT -who then goes after Owens for repeating what they published

post 197 - political indictment of Poroshenko for "treason" by Zelensky to kill his opposition
corruption was a maybe charge - treason is an attempt to imprison and dehabilitate Poroshenko

post 198

post 1. Zelensky going after opposition by claiming they provide "Russian disinformation"
and unifying under a state media instead

and more if i cared to look- this is not freedom of speech when you jail or indict your opposition
This is systemic corruption.

Freedom of movement and economic opportunity can be said to apply to many countries that are not democratic -neither is Uk.

I dont need to pick a side - i've already said Putin is using war crimes.

But what Im showing is we shoved him into it with no other recourse because of our meddling and
using Ukraine as a proxy war to go after Russia (pre-invasion) when Russia legit needs were sublimated
to the desires of Nuland, Kagan ,McCain etc. Same way we shoved him into the Russo-Sino alliance
with sanctions upon sanction.

Obama's own state dept and McCain (who wanted to bomb the entire planet) undermined his Russian reset
It led to the chain of events we are at now

Again, you have no standing to judge the purity of democracy in other nations because you cheered on all of Trump's efforts to thwart an American election. You even posted a dedication thread to the Jan 6 Sedition.

I haven't seen you start a single thread expressing the slightest moral concern for the fate of the citizens of Ukraine.

This is about as black and white as it gets.
One country is the invader.
The other country is not.
One country is reducing cities to smouldering piles of ash.
The other country is not.

The days of any legitimate discussion of begging Putin to be our ally against China is over.

It was a dumbass idea to begin with

Putin was always openly hostile to the west, and resentful over the disintegration of the USSR. No amount of kissing his ass is going to change that.

Russophobia was always based on a legitimate kernel of truth. Putin's Russia is a rogue state.

This war is a catastrophic blunder for Putin. He is going to undo 30 years of economic progress in Russia, and reduce them to a third rate economic power with a GDP on par with Spain, and geopolitically isolated from the capitalist world.

You can kiss Putin's ass all you want and beg him to be our ally.

I myself wouldn't waste time on a third rate economic power. As a geopolitical strategy, I would cultivate the relationship with the Quad: India, United States, Japan, Australia to counterbalance Chinese hegemony.

 

[Truth Detector]

you have no standing to judge the purity of Ukranian democracy,

But you do???!!!

...given that you cheered on every Kraken attempt Trump made to thwart our election.

Ironic given your cheering of four years of claims Trump was illegitimate, two lame and moronic attempts at impeachment over specious claims and the Russian collusion/Steele Dossier lies? Spare me.

Ukraine under no circumstances deserves to have their cities razed to the ground by your favorite war criminal Dear Vlad.

STRAWMAN alert!! No one has said Ukraine deserves to be invaded.

 

[Truth Detector]

Moral of the story: Trump supporters have been sucking Vlad's c*ck for so many years that they just cannot bring themselves to admit there was some reasonable justification for Russophobia.

This is why no one but the dumbest among us take your whiny, shrill bullshit seriously. Biden is involved in his son's corrupt influence peddling and idiots on the left think Trump is the problem. Stupid.

 

[Truth Detector]

No one forced Putin into a war here.

STRAWMAN!!! No one claimed Putin was forced into war.

That is a myth you're trying to create.

Says the hack who is creating myths and pontificating strawmen.

And the Ukraine IS a democracy. All they wanted was to become a European style democratic country - more westernized, independent & with their own sovereignty. That's it.

That is a fantasy being expressed to defend the mass corruption that still existed in Ukraine.

 

[Truth Detector]

Agreed. You're trying to reason with a Putin cocksucker. Dookie will never unlatch his lips from Putin...even if Putin is capped in the head. He's like the Indian or Nepalese wives who throw themselves on their husband's funeral pyre. Dookie will be buried with Putin, lips still attached.

half-wit
noun
\ ˈhaf-ˌwit , ˈhäf- \
: a foolish or stupid person

in·fan·tile
(ĭn′fən-tīl′, -tĭl)
adj.
Displaying or suggesting a lack of maturity; childish: infantile behavior; an infantile remark.

churl·ish
/ˈCHərliSH/
adjective

1.rude in a mean-spirited and surly way:

 

[Truth Detector]

Dookie is a Russophile passing info to Putin from his condo in Florida.

mental case
noun
: a crazy person
That guy is a complete mental case.

child·ish (chīl′dĭsh)
adj.
Marked by or indicating a lack of maturity; puerile: immature; infantile: Screaming and stamping your feet is childish.