2 nations that tried

[SmarterthanYou]

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

A militia is always subject to federal, state, or local government control. A "private" militia or army not under government control could be considered illegal and in rebellion, and as a result subject to harsh punishment. (See Macnutt, Karen L., Militias, Women and Guns Magazine, March, 1995.)

Some argue that since the militias are "owned," or under the command of the states, that the states are free to disarm their militia if they so choose, and therefore of course no individual right to keep arms exists. The Militia is not "owned," rather it is controlled, organized, et. cetera, by governments.

who the fuck is karen macnutt and why do you think that a stupid article from 1995 overwrites the writings of the founding fathers?????

What part of this don't you gun nuts understand? It's pretty clear. You can have your squirrel rifle and you can have your 10 gauge but the days of assault rifles are numbered.

"In order to create a self-supporting and effective government, Treasury Secretary Hamilton knew he needed to find a steady source of revenue. He proposed an excise tax on whiskey produced in the United States, and Congress instituted the levy in 1791. In general, the citizens of that time felt negatively toward the idea of taxation. The farmers of western Pennsylvania, many of whom distilled whiskey and profited from its sale, proved outright hostile to the idea.

In July of 1794, a force of disaffected whiskey rebels attacked and destroyed the home of a tax inspector. The rebellion grew in numbers, if not in actions, and threatened to spread to other states. Hamilton knew that the presence of a large and potentially hostile force in Pennsylvania could not be tolerated. If the government were to survive, it would have to show itself capable of keeping control.

Hamilton advocated the use of military force; President George Washington instead put state militias on the ready and sent in negotiators. When talks proved fruitless, Washington acquiesced to Hamilton's view. A force of 13,000 militia troops, led by Hamilton and Virginia governor Henry Lee, marched into western Pennsylvania.

By the time the federal force arrived, the rebellion had collapsed and most of the rebels had fled. Two men were convicted of treason and later pardoned by Washington. Alexander Hamilton was elated. The fledgling federal government had proven it could keep order -- a necessity if the U.S. was to avoid instability. But many, in particular Thomas Jefferson, thought that this resort to military force was a dangerous mistake. It convinced them that Hamilton was a dangerous man."
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/duel/peopleevents/pande22.html


If you try to create your own army in this country you are labeled a rebel and IMO a traitor. You can 'play' soldier in the woods all you want but don't for a moment think you have any real power, except as terrorists, and don't think you can take on a real militia let alone the U.S. military.

Thats the difference between a 'well regulated militia' and a band of rabble terrorists.

what part of 'come for our guns and we will kill you' do you not understand????

 

[Howey]

because I questioned authority. I wasn't a robot. the military hates people that like to think for themselves and make their own decisions.

I knew it! They kicked your ass out! Hah!

So now we know you're a fucking traiter too!

Newsflash, McVeigh: No militia lets it's members think for themselves either. That's the whole idea behind the word "organized". Unit cohesion.

 

[SmarterthanYou]

I knew it! They kicked your ass out! Hah!

So now we know you're a fucking traiter too!

i'm sorry, maybe you can show the class where getting a general discharge is being a traitor?????? oh, you can't, can you retard?????? are you tired of looking like a moron yet?

Newsflash, McVeigh: No militia lets it's members think for themselves either. That's the whole idea behind the word "organized". Unit cohesion.

news flash, dickwad. militias are freedom fighters. they are REQUIRED to think for themselves instead of blindly following orders.

you really got this 'act like a lemming' thing down, don't you?

 

[Crashk]

Damn you guys are so black and white. You gotta understand that military style assault weapons are on the chopping block. No one wants your pistols and no one is going to search your house, but there will be tighter fed and state controls on assault weapons and ammo. I think you'll find society will demand it.

Notice the NRA is nowhere to be found.

 

[SmarterthanYou]

Damn you guys are so black and white. You gotta understand that military style assault weapons are on the chopping block. No one wants your pistols and no one is going to search your house, but there will be tighter fed and state controls on assault weapons and ammo. I think you'll find society will demand it.

not that any of you statists gives a fuck, but I sincerely hope i'm around when the conservatives point to another terrorist attack and remove your 1st and 4th Amendment rights so I can watch you whine and cry. In the meantime, all you'll be doing is fueling the ability of machinists across the country to make their own weapons and they will be automatics.

Notice the NRA is nowhere to be found.

good, I hope they stay lost. they are the biggest facilitator of giving away gun rights.

 

[apple0154]

no, you traitorous bitch. not JUST because of scanners. YOU wouldn't understand anything like true freedom and liberty though, since you prefer oppression and tyranny through lethal government force. YOU would have been one of the first ones killed by the founders.

I'll repeat Crashk's comment. "If you try to create your own army in this country you are labeled a rebel and IMO a traitor. You can 'play' soldier in the woods all you want but don't for a moment think you have any real power, except as terrorists, and don't think you can take on a real militia let alone the U.S. military."

Now don't go poking someone's eye out!

 

[apple0154]

so if the rules of this country were changed to no longer allow public trials by jury, but were immediate executions on the spot by police officers on the street, you're ok with that? after all, government makes mistakes and we just have to abide by them.

You really are the extremist, aren't you?

 

[apple0154]

Oh please then, DO explain that difference.

If you don't know the difference between the Libyan government and the US government I can't help you.

 

[SmarterthanYou]

I'll repeat Crashk's comment. "If you try to create your own army in this country you are labeled a rebel and IMO a traitor. You can 'play' soldier in the woods all you want but don't for a moment think you have any real power, except as terrorists, and don't think you can take on a real militia let alone the U.S. military."

Now don't go poking someone's eye out!

not that i'm surprised, but you are the real traitor. you do realize that, right?

 

[/MSG/]

Oh please then, DO explain that difference.

Guess there wasn't a difference after all....

 

[/MSG/]

If you don't know the difference between the Libyan government and the US government I can't help you.

Explain how the rebels were different. I mean they didn't even have guns in Libya....managed to topple a pretty modern army. The Syrians are doing the same. The Palestinians, Vietnamese, Chechyans, Afghanis, Iraqis, Kurds, Etc.....I guess they are all just exceptions to some rule that hasn't been proven. Ever. Anywhere. In the history of the human race.

 

[apple0154]

Explain how the rebels were different. I mean they didn't even have guns in Libya....managed to topple a pretty modern army. The Syrians are doing the same. The Palestinians, Vietnamese, Chechyans, Afghanis, Iraqis, Kurds, Etc.....I guess they are all just exceptions to some rule that hasn't been proven. Ever. Anywhere. In the history of the human race.

One more time. The people had a damn good reason or reasons. They didn't have anywhere near the freedoms we have in North America. They had a lot to gain. The governments in those countries, like all governments, hire their friends for the best jobs, etc. The difference between them and us is our governments change so if the Liberals hire their friends and give preference to certain laws the next election changes that and the conservatives favor their friends. It balances out.

Certain groups would never get a break in those countries so, of course, they fought. They had a lot to gain. That is the difference.

 

[/MSG/]

One more time. The people had a damn good reason or reasons. They didn't have anywhere near the freedoms we have in North America. They had a lot to gain. The governments in those countries, like all governments, hire their friends for the best jobs, etc. The difference between them and us is our governments change so if the Liberals hire their friends and give preference to certain laws the next election changes that and the conservatives favor their friends. It balances out.

Certain groups would never get a break in those countries so, of course, they fought. They had a lot to gain. That is the difference.

So the current set of circumstances will continue forever? Damn man, what's next weeks lotto numbers?

 

[SmarterthanYou]

One more time. The people had a damn good reason or reasons. They didn't have anywhere near the freedoms we have in North America. They had a lot to gain. The governments in those countries, like all governments, hire their friends for the best jobs, etc. The difference between them and us is our governments change so if the Liberals hire their friends and give preference to certain laws the next election changes that and the conservatives favor their friends. It balances out.

Certain groups would never get a break in those countries so, of course, they fought. They had a lot to gain. That is the difference.

are you seriously making the claim that crony corporatism is what makes us free because it can change sides every 4 to 8 years???????

 

[apple0154]

not that i'm surprised, but you are the real traitor. you do realize that, right?

Even the Klingons

know one fights for gain.




What is the gain being promised the rebels? People are not going to fight the government just to end up in the same position. At least not the sane people. What terrible injustice are they currently suffering? Those groups are nothing more than than the male version of a hen party. A bitch session with a couple of nutters (again, acknowledgement to Bijou ) thrown in for good measure.

 

[SmarterthanYou]

What is the gain being promised the rebels? People are not going to fight the government just to end up in the same position. At least not the sane people. What terrible injustice are they currently suffering? Those groups are nothing more than than the male version of a hen party. A bitch session with a couple of nutters (again, acknowledgement to Bijou ) thrown in for good measure.

not everybody defines freedom as being able to take from the wealthy and give to the non wealthy. I know you define freedom as being able to be safe from the people while government just makes mistakes and kills innocents, but we all don't define it that way. Most of us define freedom by the constitution.

 

[apple0154]

So the current set of circumstances will continue forever?

Absolutely not. Full government medical is coming. Higher taxes on the wealthy. And society's misfits will be dealt with accordingly.

 

[apple0154]

are you seriously making the claim that crony corporatism is what makes us free because it can change sides every 4 to 8 years???????

I'm saying the laws can be changed. I was dumbing it down for you. Vote to change the laws if you don't like them. Just be sure you'll be getting a better deal, a better way of life, when it's all done. That is the point. A lot of the weekend warriors don't want to lose their home and job and family and end up with a good ass-kicking. Now do you understand?

 

[/MSG/]

And society's misfits will be dealt with accordingly.

Oh really now? And whom are they? How shalt they be dealt with? Will it be anything like dealing with Jews, Kurds, Turks, Chechyans, Etc.?

 

[apple0154]

not everybody defines freedom as being able to take from the wealthy and give to the non wealthy. I know you define freedom as being able to be safe from the people while government just makes mistakes and kills innocents, but we all don't define it that way. Most of us define freedom by the constitution.

So do I and the Preamble "states in general terms, and courts have referred to it as reliable evidence of, the Founding Fathers' intentions regarding the Constitution's meaning and what they hoped the Constitution would achieve."

So, what does the Preamble say? "We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

Provide. Promote. Two active verbs. Does that read like the government is supposed to sit back and do nothing? The Founding Fathers' intention was to "form a more perfect union", to "insure domestic tranquility". Can one expect domestic tranquility when some people are obscenely wealthy while others suffer and die from a lack of medical care?

Is that so difficult to understand?