A Theology Question

Quincunx said:
It is fascinating that you are ignoring the case of Donald's older brother who doesn't seem to have been wired quite the same as DJT. But I understand it is inconvenient for the discussion.
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Mary's father, Fred Jr.? The one who pissed off his and Pedo Don's father by refusing to stay in the family business of real estate to become an airline pilot? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Trump_Jr.

Genetics plays a part, but I think culture has more influence.
 
Cypress said:
I have stated previously and been crystal clear that there are natural instincts that cause us to want to help siblings, children, parents, and a natural urge to refrain from murdering members of your own tribe or family.

That's the lowest bar possible to clear in terms of cultivating and living an ethical human life as we have come to understand it.
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Big percentage of murders and crimes are within the family!
 
BidenPresident said:
You will never understand your own words. If all your comments are blind guesses, why should anyone care?
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My comments are not blind guesses.

I do not usually make blind guesses (I do if requested for some reason)...and mostly deal with facts or opinions. When I am offering opinions...I identify them as opinions.
 
Manfred Mason said:
By claiming not to be blind,you've opened yourself up with taking responsibility for your actions!
"Forgive them for they don't know what they are doing"
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Lonney-Tunes-square.png
 
Doc Dutch said:
Maybe he knows some of his posts are lies, but I have no doubt that Captain Earl, ex-USAF, has mental issues just like his friends....the ones who are allowed to participate in his threads.

One of the few Trumpers on JPP who I consider to be "normal" and just a fat liar is Stone. He's simply malicious, not mental. There might be one or two more, but IMO, most are a brick or two short of a load. Primarily due to elderly cognitive issues.
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You're too kind. I suspect that the most egregious liars have been that way all their lives. Whether it's lying about something political, about their fake career or fantasy life, about other posters -- they appear to have little to no sense of personal ethics or integrity. They know that what they are saying is b.s. They simply don't care.
 
Doc Dutch said:
Sorry, but I think that's a false conclusion. Kids often grow up to follow in the footsteps of their parents.

Examples; Joseph was a carpenter and so was Jesus. Actor's children often grow up and go into show business, lawyer's children often grow up and become lawyers. That's not DNA, that's culture. Nurturing.

IMO, the reason the Trump's grew up to be more immoral than the Carters is because that's the family culture, not DNA. If we were talking about a family of marathon runners or baseball stars, I'd more readily agree there is a genetic component. Same for theoretical physicists or other high IQ careers. However, on average, I put more weight on nurturing.

Consider Euro-American middle class parents who adopt babies from Asia or African. That negates the genetic component. Do you think the kids will grow up more successful in that environment than if left in a lower income or Third World shithole environment? I do because it's a more nurturing environment.
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That's what I'm saying. DNA is not the final or critical determinant driving whether or not a human cultivates and pursues moral perfection.
 
Cypress said:
So the ethical imperatives of unwavering honesty, humility, respect for other humans, temperance, and mercy are not hard wired into Trump's DNA and do not tug relentlessly at his conscience.
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IF anything, he would see those traits as weakness. Just like the Reichwingers thought of Obama as "weak" because he exhibits dignity, class, and civility when dealing with others. Ditto for Biden, and any other politician who does likewise.
 
ThatOwlWoman said:
You're too kind. I suspect that the most egregious liars have been that way all their lives. Whether it's lying about something political, about their fake career or fantasy life, about other posters -- they appear to have little to no sense of personal ethics or integrity. They know that what they are saying is b.s. They simply don't care.
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Doesn't that indicate some form of mental defect to you? While some might succeed in spite of their lies, most people who are chronic liars end up as losers because no one trusts them. Ergo, being a chronic liar is detrimental to one's career path. That, IMO, is irrational behavior.
 
Quincunx said:
Trump's dad definitely was a bit of a tool and that passed onto Don. But Donald's brother (the pilot who died an alcoholic) was older and failed to have sufficient of the "killer instinct" that Donald had and as such didn't benefit as the heir apparent to Fred's empire. Donald, on the other hand, was apparently as or more psychopathic than his father and as such was the heir apparent.

Given that both boys had the same parentage I don't think we can draw conclusions about Fred's ability to form a psychopath as opposed to Fred being able to find the psychopath in his brood and nurture that.

There's obviously a nurture part in the nature v nurture, but I'm really uncomfortable with the idea that nature cannot be part of the equation as some other posters seem to be saying.
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IMO it is not an either/or. Both nature and nurture play a part in who we become.
 
Cypress said:
The apple doesn't fall far from the tree, does it? There can always be a bad seed in a virtuous family, but the fact that the Obama and Carter children turned out differently than the Trump children tells me we cannot just rely on the theory that the lessons of moral righteousness are simply hard wired into DNA.
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It takes both nature *and* nurture to create a moral person -- or a sociopath. Many powerful ppl have sociopathic traits, yet manage to get along in society for the most part. Someone taught them how to mask their inner selves in order to prosper.
 
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