A Theology Question

Quincunx said:
I think anyone who is even remotely familiar with Christianity would NOT say God is "completely absent" from the NT. Maybe it's just because I was originally a Christian and I am familiar with the Trinity as well as the number of times Christ refers to the "Father". Indeed per Christian thought Jesus is homoousios with God and as such literally everything Christ says in the Bible comes from God himself.
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Your passive aggressive streak is starting to rear it's head again.

My post referred to a "direct and active role" of God.
Although if one accepts that Jesus is God incarnate,: then God plays a direct and active role in the NT
 
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ThatOwlWoman said:
Thanks. I'm certainly no expert, but do know enough to find credible sources. It's an interesting topic.
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Sometimes you have to know enough about a topic to know how to look for info about it


I think human ethical expectations evolve just like art, science, and culture evolve.

The art the Renaissance people made has only a passing resemblance to cave paintings of Paleolithic people, and I think modern ethical expectations have advanced since Cro-magnon man.
 
Cypress said:
Your passive aggressive streak is starting to rear it's head again.
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You are incredibly thin skinned. Sorry.

My post referred to a "direct and active role" of God.
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So you aren't familiar with the Trinity? That's surprising given how well read you are.

Although if one accepts that Jesus is God incarnate,: then God plays a direct and active role in the NT
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Interesting approach. Just deny the basis of Christian thought.
 
Cypress said:
I have stated previously and been crystal clear that there are natural instincts that cause us to want to help siblings, children, parents, and a natural urge to refrain from murdering members of your own tribe or family.

^ That's the lowest bar possible to clear in terms of cultivating and living an ethical human life as we have come to understand it.

You shouldn't even really get a pat on the back for helping your sister or restraining the urge to stab your tribal peers in the neck with a spear.
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I am fascinated at how you dismiss the entire BASIS of morality so you can focus on the superstructure.
 
Cypress said:
Sometimes you have to know enough about a topic to know how to look for info about it


I think human ethical expectations evolve just like art, science, and culture evolve.

The art the Renaissance people made has only a passing resemblance to cave paintings of Paleolithic people, and I think modern ethical expectations have advanced since Cro-magnon man.
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Like the photos of children with bombs strapped to them, that DU posted. To those people, murder-by-suicide is honorable and looked at like we look at our soldiers killing the enemy in a war. The rest of the world, not so much. Blowing up one's children is not an great evolutionary survival trait. Probably explains why those who do are a miniscule percentage of the human population.
 
Quincunx said:
So you aren't familiar with the Trinity? That's surprising given how well read you are.
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You seem to have pent up resentment, Perry.

God plays a direct and active role in Genesis, Exodus, and Job.

God (the Father, Yahweh, whatever you want to call it) doesn't play an active and direct role in the NT, unless you start counting Jesus and the holy spirit.
 
ThatOwlWoman said:
Like the photos of children with bombs strapped to them, that DU posted. To those people, murder-by-suicide is honorable and looked at like we look at our soldiers killing the enemy in a war. The rest of the world, not so much. Blowing up one's children is not an great evolutionary survival trait. Probably explains why those who do are a miniscule percentage of the human population.
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killing children is the worst crime possible. I don't even like to contemplate it

Infanticide was supposedly typically acceptable in Paleolithic cultures, if food and resources were short, babys would be abandoned to die of exposure. The Spartans would supposedly abandon babies to exposure who looked weak or puny.

It's hard to imagine why there would have been a Plato, a Confucius, a Zarathustra, a Jesus, a Kant during the last 3000 years unless humans were interested in improving and advancing the ethics of our species
 
ThatOwlWoman said:
Like the photos of children with bombs strapped to them, that DU posted. To those people, murder-by-suicide is honorable and looked at like we look at our soldiers killing the enemy in a war. The rest of the world, not so much. Blowing up one's children is not an great evolutionary survival trait. Probably explains why those who do are a miniscule percentage of the human population.
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In the short term, it's a logical act of last resort, an act of desperation, to commit suicide or support those who do. James Baldwin was correct, ‘The most dangerous creation of any society is the man who has nothing to lose.’

In the long term, it's social suicide. In their case, a death cult. All the sane ones left.
 
Cypress said:
You seem to have pent up resentment, Perry.

God plays a direct and active role in Genesis, Exodus, and Job.

God (the Father, Yahweh, whatever you want to call it) doesn't play an active and direct role in the NT, unless you start counting Jesus and the holy spirit.
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IIRC, he's somehow strongly tied to the Evangelistas growing up and it disturbs him for some reason. Some people can't let go of the past.
 
Cypress said:
killing children is the worst crime possible. I don't even like to contemplate it

Infanticide was supposedly typically acceptable in Paleolithic cultures, if food and resources were short, babys would be abandoned to die of exposure. The Spartans would supposedly abandon babies to exposure who looked weak or puny.

It's hard to imagine why there would have been a Plato, a Confucius, a Zarathustra, a Jesus, a Kant during the last 3000 years unless humans were interested in improving and advancing the ethics of our species
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Auschwitz, Sandyhook!
 
Quincunx said:
To be quite fair, Lord of the Flies is a work of fiction and not a scientific study. While you may be correct on this, I don't necessarily see it quite that way. The children in LotF were not toddlers, the youngest being about 6 and the oldest being around 10-12. So it's not as if they were wholly bereft of any understanding of mutual support and care.

What about dog packs? Dog packs develop a sort of set of rules by which they function as a group to the mutual benefit of all members. Do they have a Bagavad Gita they are required to read to their puppies?

Do you see ANY role whatsoever to biology in establishing a "moral framework" by which a social animal exists?
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Why do you equate a pack of dogs with human morality, Perry? Like most animals, their behavior is largely instinctual. Humans are not. Our forebrains allow us to choose. Well, some of us. The smarter ones and the sane ones.

Ants and bees have very sophisticated social framework. Are they moral? Or only reacting to biological programming?
 
Doc Dutch said:
IIRC, he's somehow strongly tied to the Evangelistas growing up and it disturbs him for some reason. Some people can't let go of the past.
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I've noticed the most virulent anti Christian zealots tend to be former holly rollers.


I thought it was clear that I was talking about Yahweh, God the Father, not Jesus and the holy spirit, but message boards have taught me that word parsing is a risk we take unless we go to extreme lengths to clarify our statements
 
Cypress said:
I've noticed the most virulent anti Christian zealots tend to be former holly rollers.


I thought it was clear that I was talking about Yahweh, God the Father, not Jesus and the holy spirit, but message boards have taught me that word parsing is a risk we take unless we go to extreme lengths to clarify our statements
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Like former smokers are often the worst anti-smokers?

I vaguely recall him saying something about the Trinity, but that concept didn't really become popular until around the same time as canonizing the Bible. IMO, quotes in the Bible disprove it, such as Jesus praying "let this cup pass from me"...allegedly, to himself.
 
Cypress said:
You seem to have pent up resentment, Perry.

God plays a direct and active role in Genesis, Exodus, and Job.

God (the Father, Yahweh, whatever you want to call it) doesn't play an active and direct role in the NT, unless you start counting Jesus and the holy spirit.
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I guess you didn't know that in Christianity Jesus IS God. They are one and the same. It's basic Christianity 101.

I'm surprised you don't know this. You seem so well read.
 
Quincunx said:
Cypress said:
You seem to have pent up resentment, Perry.

God plays a direct and active role in Genesis, Exodus, and Job.

God (the Father, Yahweh, whatever you want to call it) doesn't play an active and direct role in the NT, unless you start counting Jesus and the holy spirit.
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I guess you didn't know that in Christianity Jesus IS God. They are one and the same. It's basic Christianity 101.

I'm surprised you don't know this. You seem so well read.
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Your hate for Evangelistas is blinding you to the truth. Not all Christian religions believe in the Trinity, Perry.

https://christianeducatorsacademy.com/discover-the-christian-religions-that-believe-in-the-trinity/
 
Doc Dutch said:
Your hate for Evangelistas is blinding you to the truth. Not all Christian religions believe in the Trinity, Perry.

https://christianeducatorsacademy.com/discover-the-christian-religions-that-believe-in-the-trinity/
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Any church that cites the Nicene Creed (which is most of them) has the concept of one essence (Homoousion).

This has been standard across Christianity for 1,700 years. Yes there are some fringe Christian groups and the Eastern traditions that hold to non-Trinitarian beliefs but if the church says the Nicene Creed (and The Catholic and Protestant Churches do) it's an accession to this.

I'm not surprised YOU don't know this, but surely the more well read Cypress will.
 
Cypress said:
I've noticed the most virulent anti Christian zealots tend to be former holly rollers.


I thought it was clear that I was talking about Yahweh, God the Father, not Jesus and the holy spirit, but message boards have taught me that word parsing is a risk we take unless we go to extreme lengths to clarify our statements
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Yahweh ,the Holy Spirit and Jesus are three dimensions of
Yahweh!
 
Quincunx said:
Any church that cites the Nicene Creed (which is most of them) has the concept of one essence (Homoousion).

This has been standard across Christianity for 1,700 years. Yes there are some fringe Christian groups and the Eastern traditions that hold to non-Trinitarian beliefs but if the church says the Nicene Creed (and The Catholic and Protestant Churches do) it's an accession to this.

I'm not surprised YOU don't know this, but surely the more well read Cypress will.
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No surprise you want to dictate what Christians believe, Perry PhD. No surprise you declare anyone who disagrees to be on the "fringe". LOL

Is that what your Evangelista parents taught you or did you learn it someplace else?

https://christianeducatorsacademy.com/discover-the-christian-religions-that-believe-in-the-trinity/
 
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