Atheists more Intelligent

Cypress said:
PostmodernProphet said:
then religion is as well.....
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Science and philisophy are reason-based.

Religion is faith based. But religions still have value as expressions of ethics, justice, virtue, and the human condition.

The Bhagavad Gita, Torah, NT, Annalects of Confucius are at least important to the human condition as are the the knowledge of general relativity and the standard model of particle physics.
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Agreed on the difference between reason and faith.

A bigger problem, IMO, is that religions, like some other institutions, drift off their original purpose and begin to serve themselves more than their cause. The purpose of an organized Christian group is to better spread the "Good News" of salvation, something mentioned in all four Gospels and also as a place for them to gather and share their journey.

Because mankind is basically an intelligent ape, he often takes two steps forward then fucks up and takes one step back. Most churches are about saving themselves, not others. The NAACP has done the same thing; they started as a collective movement to assert equal rights for all Americans but now are more about protecting their institution than serving their initial cause. The Republican party is an example of a group that began serving itself so much that it imploded and is now dying.
 
Dutch Uncle said:
Agreed on the difference between reason and faith.

A bigger problem, IMO, is that religions, like some other institutions, drift off their original purpose and begin to serve themselves more than their cause. The purpose of an organized Christian group is to better spread the "Good News" of salvation, something mentioned in all four Gospels and also as a place for them to gather and share their journey.

Because mankind is basically an intelligent ape, he often takes two steps forward then fucks up and takes one step back. Most churches are about saving themselves, not others. The NAACP has done the same thing; they started as a collective movement to assert equal rights for all Americans but now are more about protecting their institution than serving their initial cause. The Republican party is an example of a group that began serving itself so much that it imploded and is now dying.
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same can be said of banking. you against that?

fiat currency is your religion. it's definitely evil.
 
Dutch Uncle said:
If Christian beliefs are 100% true, you just committed several grievous sins. Jesus said absolved the whore of her sins but also admonished "Go and sin no more". Yes, Christians are "born again" by being baptized and are forgiven their sins, but can't just keep sinning and then taking a dunk in the magic bathtub. That's not how it works. If you know different, please tell me and explain why.
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Baptism has nothing to do with salvation it is simply the first act of obedience following Christs example
 
Wolverine said:
Baptism has nothing to do with salvation it is simply the first act of obedience following Christs example
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Given your poor track record of Christian behavior, I'll bet you've never been a Sunday school teacher for very long, if at all.
 
Wolverine said:
Been teaching youth Sunday school for 20 plus years! You about done being a jerk?
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Since you've lied so many times on this forum, mostly about others, why should anyone believe you?

A jerk is an idiot high schooler, something of which I have no doubt you were. Asshole is the most common term I'm familiar with due to the responsibilities in both of my previous careers. Worker bees, especially stupid ones, don't like someone riding their ass whenever they fuck up, with for them was a lot.
 
Dutch Uncle said:
Agreed on the difference between reason and faith.

A bigger problem, IMO, is that religions, like some other institutions, drift off their original purpose and begin to serve themselves more than their cause. The purpose of an organized Christian group is to better spread the "Good News" of salvation, something mentioned in all four Gospels and also as a place for them to gather and share their journey.

Because mankind is basically an intelligent ape, he often takes two steps forward then fucks up and takes one step back. Most churches are about saving themselves, not others. The NAACP has done the same thing; they started as a collective movement to assert equal rights for all Americans but now are more about protecting their institution than serving their initial cause. The Republican party is an example of a group that began serving itself so much that it imploded and is now dying.
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Yes all human institutions are corruptible.
Just as individuals are corruptible.

Institutions generally are more capable of coercion than individuals.

Prominent Christian philosopher and trailblazing existentialist Soren Kierkegaard always felt that the relationship to God should be direct, any attempt by an institution to mediate between the divine and the earthly on behalf of the individual would ultimately corrupt the purity of the soul.


Whether we want to call it religion or not, there is still knowlege and wisdom out there which is beyond the reach of human reason, laboratory experimentation, and empirical positivism. Just my two cents.

Plato may have said it best that there is a realm of ideal forms which we can only reach by having the wisdom to truly understand virtue, justice, and courage.

I personally would find life to be a little paler, a little more cynical if I took the approach of the skeptics of the David Hume and Arnold Schopenhauer tradition: the only knowlege we can achieve is through experiences and sensory perception, and that there is no meaning to life, the remedy then is to adopt a comfortable detachment and indulge in the aesthetics of life.
 
For anyone interested, David Hume never said there is no meaning to life.
Many who never actually studied Hume think he is just a skeptic. This is false.

Religious fundamentalists get angry at Hume because he criticized those who believe in miracles.
 
Cypress said:
Yes all human institutions are corruptible.
Just as individuals are corruptible.

Institutions generally are more capable of coercion than individuals.

Prominent Christian philosopher and trailblazing existentialist Soren Kierkegaard always felt that the relationship to God should be direct, any attempt by an institution to mediate between the divine and the earthly on behalf of the individual would ultimately corrupt the purity of the soul.


Whether we want to call it religion or not, there is still knowlege and wisdom out there which is beyond the reach of human reason, laboratory experimentation, and empirical positivism. Just my two cents.

Plato may have said it best that there is a realm of ideal forms which we can only reach by having the wisdom to truly understand virtue, justice, and courage.

I personally would find life to be a little paler, a little more cynical if I took the approach of the skeptics of the David Hume and Arnold Schopenhauer tradition: the only knowlege we can achieve is through experiences and sensory perception, and that there is no meaning to life, the remedy then is to adopt a comfortable detachment and indulge in the aesthetics of life.
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Kierkegaard's idea is in line with Luther's Ninety-five Theses. Cut out the middleman.


Agreed that there is at least a third component to mankind beyond the physical and mental.
 
jacksonsprat22 said:
For anyone interested, David Hume never said there is no meaning to life.
Many who never actually studied Hume think he is just a skeptic. This is false.

Religious fundamentalists get angry at Hume because he criticized those who believe in miracles.
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For someone who claims I am an asshole, you sure find my posts extremely interesting to read and consider....and inspiring you to do Google research on my writing.

Hume is an example of skepticism - the only knowlege we have access to is through experience and perception. Schopenhauer is an example of pessimism and cynicism - there is no deeper meaning to life, the remedy is a comfortable aesthetic detachment.

^ That is what my previous post asserted if you need to read it again
 
Dutch Uncle said:
Kierkegaard's idea is in line with Luther's Ninety-five Theses. Cut out the middleman.


Agreed that there is at least a third component to mankind beyond the physical and mental.
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That is one of the few things I admire about Luther and Protestantism - a rejection of received authority. Luther was an asshole, but philosophically and abstractly he was onto something there
 
Cypress said:
That is one of the few things I admire about Luther and Protestantism - a rejection of received authority. Luther was an asshole, but philosophically and abstractly he was onto something there
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Sometimes it takes an asshole to be heard, especially when going up against those who don't want to listen. It's the same concept behind "Well behaved women rarely make history".
 
jacksonsprat22 said:
Settles it. Goodbye, jerkoff.
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On the other hand, I acknowledge your tacit admission that philosophical, theological, religious, and ethical modes of inquiry are valid traditional avenues to human knowlege. -- that there are certain questions about life and reality that empirical observation and particle accelerators cannot answer.

Personally, I try I try to acquire knowledge and wisdom by experiencing and respecting scientific, philosophical, artistic, religious, and ethical traditions. You would be amazed at the extent to which quantum mechanics, metaphysics, theology can intersect.
 
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