Eons of homophobia, genocide, infanticide, and destructive wars and conquest also owe a debt to Christianity. They could barely have survived without it.
Atheists more Intelligent
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Eons of homophobia, genocide, infanticide, and destructive wars and conquest also owe a debt to Christianity. They could barely have survived without it.
Many crimes against humanity have been committed by human institutions like organized religion, capitalism, imperialism, nationalism, communism, fascism, imperialism, colonialism. I would say out of those aforementioned categories, nationalism, imperialism, and proudly atheist communism have killed more people - by far - than organized religious institutions.
The fact is there is exactly zero doubt that openly and proudly athesist communism killed more people in the 20th century, than organized religion has killed in the entirety of human history.
I am not on anybody's side, I am just a student of history and philosophy. And any fair minded reading of history recognizes the crimes committed by human institutions, including religion -- but also recognizes the profound and foundational role Christianity played in western civilization's unique developments in reason, logic, scholarly skepticism, natural philosophy, science. We would not even recognize the western intellectual tradition without the pervasive influence of the Christian theology and philosophy of late antiquity and the middle ages.
https://www.justplainpolitics.com/s...heists-more-Intelligent&p=3866774#post3866774
You have nothing to support the idea that “atheism” has killed more people than religion. It’s a ridiculous remark not the least of reasons because “atheism” isn’t a belief system. North Korea isn’t “atheist”; Kim Jong Un is their god. Same with the worship of the state required in the USSR and Cambodia. Those weren’t “atheist” states. They were totalitarian/authoritarian dictatorships where the dictator replaces god. It’s replacing one god for another.
As for your canard about religion ending slavery, Frederick Douglass disagrees:
https://www.newyorker.com/books/under-review/american-christianitys-white-supremacy-problem
Early on in “Narrative of the Life of Frederick Douglass,” the first of three autobiographies Douglass wrote over his lifetime, he recounts what happened—or, perhaps more accurately, what didn’t happen—after his master, Thomas Auld, became a Christian believer at a Methodist camp meeting. Douglass had harbored the hope that Auld’s conversion, in August, 1832, might lead him to emancipate his slaves, or at least “make him more kind and humane.” Instead, Douglass writes, “If it had any effect on his character, it made him more cruel and hateful in all his ways.” Auld was ostentatious about his piety—praying “morning, noon, and night,” participating in revivals, and opening his home to travelling preachers—but he used his faith as license to inflict pain and suffering upon his slaves. “I have seen him tie up a lame young woman, and whip her with a heavy cowskin upon her naked shoulders, causing the warm red blood to drip; and, in justification of the bloody deed, he would quote this passage of Scripture—‘He that knoweth his master’s will, and doeth it not, shall be beaten with many stripes,’ ” Douglass writes.
Lest you think this is a vestige or days gone by, you should be aware that modern Christians are no better than Auld:
In a 2019 nationwide survey, eighty-six per cent of white evangelical Protestants and seventy per cent of both white mainline Protestants and white Catholics said that the “Confederate flag is more a symbol of Southern pride than of racism”; nearly two-thirds of white Christians over all said that killings of African-American men by the police are isolated incidents rather than part of a broader pattern of mistreatment; and more than six in ten white Christians disagreed with the statement that “generations of slavery and discrimination have created conditions that make it difficult for blacks to work their way out of the lower class.”
IBDaMann
Well-known member
You are correct that religion is by far more lethal than atheism. More people have been ruthlessly slaughtered by Marxist theology than any other theology or ideology or phobia or bigotry.
You are spot on.
jacksonsprat22
Verified User
Trump is a Christian. Hitler was a Catholic. Mussolini made the Vatican an independent nation within Italy.
You implied that my Quaker, Unitarian, and liberal Catholic friends should be held accountable for the ignorance and agenda of Protestant fundamentalists.
Using your own standards, you are accountable for the State Atheism of the USSR and the plethora of crimes they committed against Christians, Jews, and Muslims in the name of state atheism.
I believe I said that the Christian left was at the forefront of abolitionism. It was the Union Army that ended slavery.
Christianity is a worldwide religion. You keep attempting to hold world Christianity responsible for the chattel slavery practiced in the southern United States. The fact that by 1860, slavery was illegal in almost all majority Christian nations outside the southern United States makes your claim that Christianity was responsible for southern slavery preposterous.
It obviously makes you angry that the Christian left and the Transcendentalists were are the forefront of the abolitionist movement. But historical facts are impervious to your anger and emotions.
jacksonsprat22
Verified User
As Machiavelli said, it is better for a political leader to pretend to be religious than actually be religious.
Dutch Uncle
* Tertia Optio * Defend the Constitution
Agreed.
I recently rewatched "There Will be Blood". Great movie about capitalist atheists beating the shit out of false prophets. You'd like it.
jacksonsprat22
Verified User
How did my Machiavelli comment turn into a movie recommendation?
Dutch Uncle
* Tertia Optio * Defend the Constitution
Atheism is the threat topic. I agreed about the comment and returned to the thread topic. Is that a problem for you?
jacksonsprat22
Verified User
No. You like a movie. Good to know.
Dutch Uncle
* Tertia Optio * Defend the Constitution
And you claim to put people on ignore then don't. Good to know.
jacksonsprat22
Verified User
I can put people on ignore and take them off. Do you not know how to do this?
Dutch Uncle
* Tertia Optio * Defend the Constitution
I know how to do it but consider it juvenile to announce one's intentions to do so. It's also juvenile to claim to do it but don't. It's like a child who threatens to hold their breath until they turn blue. Silly but fun to watch. Go for it, claim you are doing it all you like. I'll continue to enjoy pointing it out.
jacksonsprat22
Verified User
According to a video course I have on Machiavelli, that is not because he thinks Christianity is corrupt, unscrupulous, malignant.
It is because he thinks Christianity is too humble, contemplative, and weak to support a strong Republic.
jacksonsprat22
Verified User
Is all of your knowledge about philosophy from videos? Did you ever actually read Machiavelli?
Why would Machiavelli say the Prince should feign belief in religion?
Too many books for me to read.
Taking classes is a good way to acquire knowedge. I put a lot of weight on the opinions of scholarly experts of Machiavelli.
I would say that in the Middle Ages and Renaissance it was a political neccessity to at least feign Christian piety and orthodoxy. Charlemagne professed to be a pious Christian, but if I recall correctly he practiced polygamy and had multiple wives. Pretty sure that Ivan the Terrible feigned being a pious Russian Orthodox Christian.
jacksonsprat22
Verified User
So you never read Machiavelli. Please don't speak on something you have no knowledge of. First rule of philosophy.
Please refrain from ever talking about climate change, COVID19, genetics and evolution, unless you have actually read the peer reviwed scientific literature in academic and medical journals.
Unless you agree with me that citing the knowedge and insights of trained scholars and scientists is a perfectly valid way to discuss the current state of knowlege