Bailout bill fails

uscitizen said:
LOL, yeah right. If you were a Dem in congress you would be right in there with them Damo.
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I would be trying to work something out with them, you danged well bet I would. It's stupid to posture when the stuff is hitting the electrical cooling convenience.
 
Damocles said:
I would be trying to work something out with them, you danged well bet I would. It's stupid to posture when the stuff is hitting the electrical cooling convenience.
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What's to work out? They thought they had it worked out and then the Republicans balked because Nancy Pelosi delivered a speech that hurt their feelings. And yes, I am blaming the Republicans now.

How can you work with these people?
 
Darla said:
If the DOW dives and keeps going down over the next week, they’ll rework the bill and the dems will push it through without R support if they have to. I just think it’s too soon to panic into something. This bill will be harder to get out of than a bad marriage once it is passed.
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If the dow closes below 10725.... we will see 8000 before we see 12000 again.
 
Chapdog said:
and subsequently if doesn't pass market will lose 1/3rd of value including baby boomers retirement accounts.. 2k wont seem to bad 2 weeks from now.
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You think the market is going to lose that much Chap, 1/3 of its pre-bailout failure value? So you think it’ll go to approx 7000?
 
I think the GOP blew it on this.

They got a ton of calls from constituents telling them "no," because constituents are pissed. Still, I'm betting that 90% of those constituents have no idea what "no" is going to mean for them; and probably a decent % think this was just a "bailout for the rich."

Once it comes home to roost, it's gonna be trouble. It won't do any good if the reps say "but you told us to vote no!" when people are losing their jobs & homes...
 
Darla said:
Even if a bailout package subsequently comes through, say, later this week?
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yes.... it is a technical breakdown. It could easily get there in a couple of weeks. This isn't a minor breakdown level. It is a major one. Every technical trader out there will hit the sell button tomorrow. Fucking politicians.

We need a new revolution. I am sick of their crap. They are all the same. Both parties just fucked the public AGAIN. Either party could have pushed for those extra 11 votes.

Bottom line.... go to cash... go to gold.
 
Onceler said:
I think the GOP blew it on this.

They got a ton of calls from constituents telling them "no," because constituents are pissed. Still, I'm betting that 90% of those constituents have no idea what "no" is going to mean for them; and probably a decent % think this was just a "bailout for the rich."

Once it comes home to roost, it's gonna be trouble. It won't do any good if the reps say "but you told us to vote no!" when people are losing their jobs & homes...
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the sad part, and take it someone who worked at fidelity trading retirement accounts as my first job out of college, is that so so so many people are going to sell on this correction like lemmings and wallstreet will make 5x more then they would have on this bailout.
 
Superfreak said:
yes.... it is a technical breakdown. It could easily get there in a couple of weeks. This isn't a minor breakdown level. It is a major one. Every technical trader out there will hit the sell button tomorrow. Fucking politicians.

We need a new revolution. I am sick of their crap. They are all the same. Both parties just fucked the public AGAIN. Either party could have pushed for those extra 11 votes.

Bottom line.... go to cash... go to gold.
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SF - With all due respect, one party is particularly more to blame than the other. It's the party that refused to play along because the Speaker made this speech:

"Madam Speaker, when was the last time someone asked you for $700 billion?

It is a number that is staggering, but tells us only the costs of the Bush Administration's failed economic policies--policies built on budgetary recklessness, on an anything goes mentality, with no regulation, no supervision, and no discipline in the system.

Democrats believe in the free market, which can and does create jobs, wealth, and capital, but left to its own devices it has created chaos.

That chaos is the dismal picture painted by Treasury Secretary Paulson and Federal Reserve Chairman Bernanke a week and a half ago in the Capitol.

As they pointed out, we confront a crisis of historic magnitude that has the ability to do serious injury not simply to our economy, but to the American people: not just to Wall Street, but to everyday Americans on Main Street.

It is our responsibility today, to help avert that catastrophic outcome.
Let us be clear: This is a crisis caused on Wall Street. But it is a crisis that reaches to Main Street in every city and town of the United States.

It is a crisis that freezes credit, causes families to lose their homes, cripples small businesses, and makes it harder to find jobs.

It is a crisis that never had to happen. It is now the duty of every Member of this body to recognize that the failure to act responsibly, with full protections for the American taxpayer, would compound the damage already done to the financial security of millions of American families.

Over the past several days, we have worked with our Republican colleagues to fashion an alternative to the original plan of the Bush Administration.

I must recognize the outstanding leadership provided by Chairman Barney Frank, whose enormous intellectual and strategic abilities have never before been so urgently needed, or so widely admired.

I also want to recognize Rahm Emanuel, who combined his deep knowledge of financial institutions with his pragmatic policy experience, to resolve key disagreements.

Secretary Paulson deserves credit for working day and night to help reach an agreement and for his flexibility in negotiating changes to his original proposal.

Democrats insisted that legislation responding to this crisis must protect the American people and Main Street from the meltdown on Wall Street.

The American people did not decide to dangerously weaken our regulatory and oversight policies. They did not make unwise and risky financial deals. They did not jeopardize the economic security of the nation. And they must not pay the cost of this emergency recovery and stabilization bill.

So we insisted that this bill contain several key provisions:

This legislation must contain independent and ongoing oversight to ensure that the recovery program is managed with full transparency and strict accountability.

The legislation must do everything possible to allow as many people to stay in their homes rather than face foreclosure.

The corporate CEOs whose companies will benefit from the public's participation in this recovery must not benefit by exorbitant salaries and golden parachute retirement bonuses.

Our message to Wall Street is this: the party is over. The era of golden parachutes for high-flying Wall Street operators is over. No longer will the U.S. taxpayer bailout the recklessness of Wall Street.

The taxpayers who bear the risk in this recovery must share in the upside as the economy recovers.

And should this program not pay for itself, the financial institutions that benefited, not the taxpayers, must bear responsibility for making up the difference.

These were the Democratic demands to safeguard the American taxpayer, to help the economy recover, and to impose tough accountability as a central component of this recovery effort.

This legislation is not the end of congressional activity on this crisis. Over the course of the next few weeks, we will continue to hold investigative and oversight hearings to find out how the crisis developed, where mistakes were made, and how the recovery must be managed to protect the middle class and the American taxpayer.

With passage of this legislation today, we can begin the difficult job of turning our economy around, of helping those who depend on a growing economy and stable financial institutions for a secure retirement, for the education of their children, for jobs and small business credit.

Today we must act for those Americans, for Main Street, and we must act now, with the bipartisan spirit of cooperation which allowed us to fashion this legislation.

This not enough. We are also working to restore our nation's economic strength by passing a new economic recovery stimulus package--a robust, job creating bill--that will help Americans struggling with high prices, get our economy back on track, and renew the American Dream.

Today, we will act to avert this crisis, but informed by our experience of the past eight years with the failed economic leadership that has left us left capable of meeting the challenges of the future.

We choose a different path. In the new year, with a new Congress and a new president, we will break free with a failed past and take America in a New Direction to a better future."
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Dungheap said:
SF - With all due respect, one party is particularly more to blame than the other. It's the party that refused to play along because the Speaker made this speech:
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While I agree that "excuse" is fucking lame... so is the 'well, there weren't enough Reps voting, so we didn't get the votes, because we were more worried about the upcoming election than we were doing what was in the best interest of the public'

I could care less if you want to blame the Reps more or if someone else wants to blame the Dems more. They both just fucked us. They both had the ability to get those extra 11 votes and they both fucked us.

We are hosed. Get that. Understand that. The market is going to get hammered tomorrow if we don't rally above 10725 today. HAMMERED.
 
AssHatZombie said:
All nations that have had any chance at development of sophisticated barter economies have all been polluted by european mercantilist aggression. WHo knows what could be?


Why do you hate hope?

Why do you prefer the security of totalitarianism over the chaos of freedom?

Why do you fear so much?

Why?
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So I am a contactor, I contract with someone to build a skyscraper for them. What do I take in exchange in you barter world? I guess I barter gold but no one has that much gold. So then what, cattle? Crops? This is an industrialized age. Barter does not work as the main form of economics. Early in my carreer I took a four wheel drive Bronco in exchange for legal services. But that shit don't feed the family. I couldn't take it down to my local kroger and give it to the manager for 3 years worth of groceries.
 
Superfreak said:
If the dow closes below 10725.... we will see 8000 before we see 12000 again.
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10582 as of this post and actually climbing. Only down about 560 and has been moving up for the last 20 minutes. Might actually get above 500 before closing bell in 11 minutes
 
I think they fcked us when Bush got on TV and said the sky was falling unless we pass his bill.

Its a self fullfilling prophecy.
 
Superfreak said:
yes.... it is a technical breakdown. It could easily get there in a couple of weeks. This isn't a minor breakdown level. It is a major one. Every technical trader out there will hit the sell button tomorrow. Fucking politicians.

We need a new revolution. I am sick of their crap. They are all the same. Both parties just fucked the public AGAIN. Either party could have pushed for those extra 11 votes.

Bottom line.... go to cash... go to gold.
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Well, now you are talking.
 
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