Bottom 20% spend $1.90 for $1.00 in wages

What I have said is that overstating a problem gives your "opponents" ammunition that they will use against you. Others have taken my points of how it is overstated and attempted to make it into some argument against helping the poor. Nothing could be further from the truth.

There are real poor in America, even those that Americans would consider poor according to that article. Instead of overstating it in an obvious way, we should help them.


What's the deal with the scare quotes? Enough of that shit.

You've basically said that the people the census says are poor aren't really poor because they've got stuff. And hey, look at the people in Ethiopia, they don't have any stuff.


Try living off of $10,000 per year and then come and tell me about the experience of being "poor" in America.
 
What's the deal with the scare quotes? Enough of that shit.

You've basically said that the people the census says are poor aren't really poor because they've got stuff. And hey, look at the people in Ethiopia, they don't have any stuff.


Try living off of $10,000 per year and then come and tell me about the experience of being "poor" in America.
What makes you think it never happened to me?

Again, there are real poor in America. Like a person living off of 10K a year would be.

Overstating it by using the census bureau's numbers to attempt to make your case only gives ammunition against getting help for people who really need it.

I used no "scare" numbers, that is rubbish. I pointed out reality.

What you seem to be saying to me is that I shouldn't pay attention to people who have houses, cars, food, clothes, but are still considered "poor" and should help them out of their poverty without regard to the fact that I wouldn't consider them poor.
 
What makes you think it never happened to me?

Again, there are real poor in America. Like a person living off of 10K a year would be.

Overstating it by using the census bureau's numbers to attempt to make your case only gives ammunition against getting help for people who really need it.

I used no "scare" numbers, that is rubbish. I pointed out reality.

What you seem to be saying to me is that I shouldn't pay attention to people who have houses, cars, food, clothes, but are still considered "poor" and should help them out of their poverty without regard to the fact that I wouldn't consider them poor.


Maybe you are unaware of this, but the federal poverty level for an individual is an annual income of $10,400. These are the "poor" you are talking about.


Your argument is summed up in footnote 3 of that tripe you posted:

The Census Bureau defines an individual as poor if his or her family income falls below certain specified income thresholds. These thresholds vary by family size. In 2002, a family of four was deemed poor if its annual income fell below $18,556; a family of three was deemed poor if annual income was below $14,702. There are a number of problems with the Census Bureau's poverty figures: Census undercounts income, ignores assets accumulated in prior years, and disregards non-cash welfare such as food stamps and public housing in its official count of income. However, the most important problem with Census figures is that, even if a family's income falls below the official poverty thresholds, the family's actual living conditions are likely to be far higher than the image most Americans have in mind when they hear the word "poverty."


Again, I'm not buying it.
 
Maybe you are unaware of this, but the federal poverty level for an individual is an annual income of $10,400. These are the "poor" you are talking about.


Your argument is summed up in footnote 3 of that tripe you posted:




Again, I'm not buying it.
I'm not buying this either.

Again, what the census bureau reports as poor is not the same thing they report as in "poverty".

One of the reasons they have so much stuff, hence the measure of stuff again flies in the face of the argument that we don't do enough. They have stuff and they have food because we are generous and we actually do help our poor. I propose we continue that, while setting some boundaries as to where we will spend rather than just listening to silly commercials that attempt to tell me that 20% of the nation's children will go to bed hungry when by their own reports only about 3% of those who are poor ever feel that need in that way.

What I suggest is rather than using fear numbers we look at the actual level of poverty, how we help, and what the help goes to.

And I am also a firm believer in "workfare" over welfare.

You seem to suggest that I must not look at what they have when defining "poor". I suggest that is preposterous, it is how we measure.
 
Damo has done a fine job of distracting from the fact that you posted a statistic which now that credit has dried up along with the job market, is an alarming predictor for our economy, and that you didn’t even know what the fuck it meant.

And that is all Damo has accomplished with his usual tap dance routine.
I wonder if he can do a tango? I like a tango.
The Job market has NOT dried up. We have 5.1% unemployment. That is not a dried up job market. Some places in the US, like where I live have a glut of jobs that can't be filled because there is no one qualified to fill them. If you OWN your own house you are not poor. If you have cable and a dvd player and television you are not POOR. You may be low income, you may live month to month but you are not POOR. The poor in this country live in homeless shelters or their cars or under bridges. Get rid of cable and in most places you have anywhere between 30 and 100 dollars per month to spend. Get rid of cell phones and get a land line with local calls only and you will save money. If you have more than one car, sell one. I live near the border. We have colonias on this side of the border. The people that live there have no electricity, no sewage, damn sure no AC and we get into the 100's here on a regular basis. Those people are poor. People who live in public housing here have AC and electric and water. I know there are poor in this country but we need to re-evaluate what is poor. You should have access to housing but cable, phone service and a car are NOT necessities. They are luxury items.
 
Study: Las Cruces has the jobs, but not qualified workers

We are the second largest city in NM with about 90k people.

If you are looking for work, Las Cruces is the place to be right now. Southern New Mexico's largest city has maintain very low unemployment rates since last year and a recent study the University of New Mexico Bureau of Business and Economic Research shows that there are actually more jobs available than qualified workers.
The question is twofold. For workers: Are the jobs here good paying? And employers: Is the labor pool adequate?

The UNM report analyzed data through 2006 for Las Cruces and its downtown area. It concludes that while the unemployment rate is indeed low, so is the pay. "Jobs created by the Las Cruces economy are, on average, low paying," the study found.


Salaries/good jobs

Richard Wagner has been the area director of the Las Cruces office of Workforce Solutions — formerly the state Department of Labor — for nine years. The job market has diversified over that time, he said.

"We have more technical jobs and jobs with better wages and better benefits," he said. "There's been an improvement in the type of job here."

Steve Vierck, president and CEO of the Mesilla Valley Economic Development Alliance, said that salaries have jumped in Doña Ana County for MVEDA-assisted jobs.

"It was $6.75 an hour five years ago," he said of the average pay rate. "Now it's $12.64 an hour."

But there is still plenty of room to improve.

According to the UNM study, "Per capita and household incomes in Las Cruces are low relative to other metropolitan areas in New Mexico; since 1990, growth of incomes in Las Cruces has lagged behind that of other metropolitan areas as well as non-metropolitan areas ... Low incomes are not limited to a single group, but seem to be a structural characteristic at all levels."

Jim Berry, president of the Greater Las Cruces Chamber of Commerce, said he also has witnessed an improving job market.

"There's employment. We all know it doesn't pay quite as much and the compensation levels aren't as high as other places," he said. "But that's improving."

Vierck said salaries need to continue to rise and hi-tech jobs are a good place to start.

"We made that elevation but we kind of plateaued," he said of salaries. "That's why we've got to focus on industries like aerospace. That's why the spaceport is so important to the industry of the future." Spaceport America is slated to be built in southern Sierra County.

Karen Trujillo, who owns On The Move Property Brokers LLC., and serves as president of the Hispano Chamber of Commerce de Las Cruces, said an emphasis on attracting more professional, higher-paying jobs is a must.

"There are still service-oriented jobs, but it's nice to see that MVEDA and all the partnerships are focusing on the need to offer incentives for the higher-paying jobs as well," she said. "The recruitment of physicians, the recruitment of professionals, through their business they will offer more job opportunities."


Labor force

There are jobs to be had. The UNM study found the "Las Cruces economy creates more jobs than are demanded by the labor force living in the city ... the remaining jobs in Las Cruces are filled by residents of the county and surrounding communities."

That means employees can be more selective.

"What we're seeing right now is it's very competitive," Wagner said. "Employers are beginning to understand that they have to offer a little bit more, whether it be wages or benefits or a better flexible schedule."

Las Cruces Machine's Bryn Davis, who also is chairman of the MVEDA board, said he's been hiring employees in Las Cruces for 15 years. He said the issue of whether the labor pool has improved is not entirely clear.

"It's gone up and it's gone down," he said. "The pool hasn't gone down, but the market has gotten tighter, so there's less to pick from. The water's not as a clean because the pond's pretty low."

Michelle Cornell was recently hired at Las Cruces Machine. She's been on the job for nearly six months and she said she appreciates having a job when many factory jobs across the nation are moving to other countries.

"In manufacturing, everything's getting sent over," she said.

Shawnda Friday has worked for Las Cruces Machine for nearly a decade. She said she has seen good and bad workers come through, but she said the company does a good job hiring employees.

"Most of them are willing to do their job, once in awhile you get one (who doesn't)," she said. "(The company) is decent about it; they don't start people out at minimum wage."

Davis, with a tight labor pool, there is less room for error. He said many applicants are either great or terrible, with few in between.

"I would say we see a bigger disparity; we see good ones and bad ones You don't find a lot of C's," he said. "We find ones that breeze right through it (application process) and are pretty good and we find people who are horrible."


Better-trained workers

A constant refrain from many business owners in Doña Ana County has been: We need a better-trained, better-educated work force. Vierck and others have said the issue is key for economic development because companies considering a move to southern New Mexico first check out what kind of employees they can expect to find.

Wagner said education and training is the key to improving the work force

"The educational (institutions) are making it more accessible for people who don't have the funding to go to school," he said. "They're making it a little easier to access."


Growing different industries

One of the weaknesses in Las Cruces' economy, the UNM report states, is in the area of professional services and manufacturing.

"With the exception of mining, professional, scientific and technical services is by far the greatest source of lost revenues in Las Cruces ... the Las Cruces economy sends an estimated $36.8 million per year for these services to other parts of the state. Manufacturing accounts for losses of more than $20 million per year," according to the study.

A light at the end of the tunnel, though, could come in the form of Spaceport America. Even though the facility will be built north of Doña Ana County, near Upham, N.M., Wayne Savage of DMJM Aviation — the design and engineering firm hired by the Spaceport Authority — says it will have a significant impact on the business community for the entire area, including Las Cruces.

"Very conservatively, it could easily create 1,100 to 1,200 jobs and easily be a billion-dollar impact on the economy," he said. "There will be requirements for all sort of educational levels."

An industry that is already growing in the Las Cruces area is health care. The UNM study reports that one of the strengths of Las Cruces is "the town's function as a regional retail and service center, including health care."

The study shows that health care and social services draw an average of nearly $180 million into the economy.
 
for some reason I don't think Las Cruces has many jobs for Telephony Engineers.
Couldn't tell ya, but there ARE jobs here. We have mild winters, HOT summers, no fall to speak of. We have great food, friendly people and a great mix of cultures. We have a fairly big university here, about 20,000 students, and a great agriculture degree program. If you have eaten hot Chile peppers they were probably developed her. We have a very laid back attitude and LOW property taxes.
 
The Job market has NOT dried up. We have 5.1% unemployment. That is not a dried up job market. Some places in the US, like where I live have a glut of jobs that can't be filled because there is no one qualified to fill them. If you OWN your own house you are not poor. If you have cable and a dvd player and television you are not POOR. You may be low income, you may live month to month but you are not POOR. The poor in this country live in homeless shelters or their cars or under bridges. Get rid of cable and in most places you have anywhere between 30 and 100 dollars per month to spend. Get rid of cell phones and get a land line with local calls only and you will save money. If you have more than one car, sell one. I live near the border. We have colonias on this side of the border. The people that live there have no electricity, no sewage, damn sure no AC and we get into the 100's here on a regular basis. Those people are poor. People who live in public housing here have AC and electric and water. I know there are poor in this country but we need to re-evaluate what is poor. You should have access to housing but cable, phone service and a car are NOT necessities. They are luxury items.

Yeah, where I live, it’s all falling apart, the job market has dried up, and you my dear, are about to find out what trickle down economics really means. Because where I live? Matters.

Everything else in your post has already been addressed. Numerous times.
 
Dhula the frapichino queen, you haven't seen dried up.
Let it get to your European loving 10 to 12 percent and then talk to me.
till then go order another tall latte you overweight spinster.
 
You know, by 2006, bush’s usda had changed the categories for hunger, and stuck some 20 million hungry Americans in the “food insecure” category. But they are still hungry.

By 2006 some 35 million Americans were hungry/food insecure. By now, the number is probably up to 40 million or more, thanks to extremely high food inflation. I do not know if the people here are stupid? Do you not know about rising food costs???

And I think that when you have a government that is reclassifying your hungry people, while at the same time food costs are going through the roof, to make the claim that because some of the poor in this country might have pulled a dvd player out of a dumpster, bought one second hand, or gotten one on credit back when they could get credit (don’t happen no more, as the song goes), they are not really hungry and suffering, is morally depraved. I don’t know how to be any franker than that. It is morally depraved.
 
Dhula the frapichino queen, you haven't seen dried up.
Let it get to your European loving 10 to 12 percent and then talk to me.
till then go order another tall latte you overweight spinster.

Thanks for adding your usual deep-thinking to this thread top.
 
dhula, check out food stamp lines or the girth next time you hear about somebody being poor.
More than 50% of them are obese. Your beyong ignorant thinking 40million don't get enough to eat.
 
dhula, check out food stamp lines or the girth next time you hear about somebody being poor.
More than 50% of them are obese. Your beyong ignorant thinking 40million don't get enough to eat.

Yes, when fruits, vegetables, lean meats and fish cost 12 times as much as a jumbo bag of fritos, I’m the one being ignorant Topper. That’s right.
 
good one
agriculture etf

Yes, you will probably make money. I can’t make money on people’s suffering, dying and starving. My brother tried to get me to buy a stock three years ago. It was for a company that made those reinforced armor vehicles. He said they were getting a contract. He made a lot of money on it, but I didn’t buy it. I thought that if I made money on war, it could bring me nothing but grief.

I know you won’t grasp that, or believe it, or understand it. But it is how it is.
 
I can feel you on the war stuff.
If you had taken economics you wouldn't feel that way about agriculture.
Without investors in agriculture, less people eat.
 
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