California real estate is so expensive that families, retirees, and even tech workers

Hello tsuke,

tsuke said:
if you get rid of all the immigrants then there would be less competition for housing and prices would go down. That would not be a bad suggestion for this particular problem.
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If we got rid of all the immigrants and their descendants there would be no USA.

And there would be no First Lady, or her family.
 
Oneuli said:
Certainly, California is helped by such factors. But there's a lot more than that going on. The world is packed full of places that are warm and within a few hours of the beach and which are dirt cheap, because they don't have much more than that to offer.... including large parts of Latin America, Africa, and Asia.



True. And I'd certainly advocate California doing something about this, rather than continuing to test their endurance. That would include loosening rules that restrict building vertically. In the meantime, though, it really speaks to how lousy the alternatives are that these people have decided that life in California, living in a van, is better than life would be in, say, Texas.
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I thought we were talking about the U.S. Within the U.S. there are almost no places that have the weather and oceans that we do. You can't beat what we have.

You can ask the question why does anyone stay where they are if they are having economic troubles. And for a lot of people it's family and familiarity. Within the U.S. more people leave California than enter. We have the highest poverty rate in the country. You think every poor person in california should move to Texas and we would be left with only rich folks? That isn't goin to happen.
 
cawacko said:
I thought we were talking about the U.S
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I think if you zoom out and look at the wider world, you'll see other factors can be vastly more important.

And for a lot of people it's family and familiarity
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Definitely. But for others, they're willing to illegally cross a border and live as an undocumented laborer for the ability to access California's economy.

We have the highest poverty rate in the country.
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Using the standard definition of poverty, that's definitely not true. Excluding the territories, Mississippi has the highest poverty rate. It's got a poverty rate of 21.9%. California's rate is 16.4%. Sixteen states have higher poverty rates than California.

You think every poor person in california should move to Texas and we would be left with only rich folks?
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No. I wouldn't wish Texas on anyone.
 
Oneuli said:
Certainly, California is helped by such factors. But there's a lot more than that going on. The world is packed full of places that are warm and within a few hours of the beach and which are dirt cheap, because they don't have much more than that to offer.... including large parts of Latin America, Africa, and Asia.



True. And I'd certainly advocate California doing something about this, rather than continuing to test their endurance. That would include loosening rules that restrict building vertically. In the meantime, though, it really speaks to how lousy the alternatives are that these people have decided that life in California, living in a van, is better than life would be in, say, Texas.
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they have jobs

they are hoping to rehouse themselves

In texas they have no job or home
 
Oneuli said:
I think if you zoom out and look at the wider world, you'll see other factors can be vastly more important.



Definitely. But for others, they're willing to illegally cross a border and live as an undocumented laborer for the ability to access California's economy.



Using the standard definition of poverty, that's definitely not true. Excluding the territories, Mississippi has the highest poverty rate. It's got a poverty rate of 21.9%. California's rate is 16.4%. Sixteen states have higher poverty rates than California.



No. I wouldn't wish Texas on anyone.
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More people come to the U.S. than leave the country so it's very few that decide to move overseas. Within the U.S. there is no place better for weather and ocean than California. Much of Asia is hot as sh*t, it does not beat California.

The SPM is the updated and more progressive measure of poverty. California is at around 20% I believe which is the highest in the country. We have the most wealth and we have the highest poverty.

What do you have against Texas?
 
cawacko said:
I thought we were talking about the U.S. Within the U.S. there are almost no places that have the weather and oceans that we do. You can't beat what we have.
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You can't beat what the euros stole and slaughtered their way onto? We have 8 endless wars of aggression going on dropping bombs every 12 minutes. Seems we're not done taking and slaughtering our way to something better somewhere.
 
Oneuli said:
I think if you zoom out and look at the wider world, you'll see other factors can be vastly more important.



Definitely. But for others, they're willing to illegally cross a border and live as an undocumented laborer for the ability to access California's economy.



Using the standard definition of poverty, that's definitely not true. Excluding the territories, Mississippi has the highest poverty rate. It's got a poverty rate of 21.9%. California's rate is 16.4%. Sixteen states have higher poverty rates than California.



No. I wouldn't wish Texas on anyone.
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And you are correct there is huge demand for cheap labor in California which, along with its location to the border, is why so many people here illegally come to California. With so much wealth there is increased demand for gardners, home cleaners, day laborers etc. not to mention those who work in the fields. It's why we have such a bifracated economy and such wealth and poverty.
 
Fentoine Lum said:
You can't beat what the euros stole and slaughtered their way onto? We have 8 endless wars of aggression going on dropping bombs every 12 minutes. Seems we're not done taking and slaughtering our way to something better somewhere.
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Ok. I'm sure that's the thought that goes through many people's heads when they are deciding where to move.
 
cawacko said:
More people come to the U.S. than leave the country so it's very few that decide to move overseas. Within the U.S. there is no place better for weather and ocean than California. Much of Asia is hot as sh*t, it does not beat California.

The SPM is the updated and more progressive measure of poverty. California is at around 20% I believe which is the highest in the country. We have the most wealth and we have the highest poverty.

What do you have against Texas?
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the racists
 
Micawber said:
Just got back from Sonoma. Lot's of nice homes for sale at the 2 million price point.
Nice a cool weather too.
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The older rich in SF get their fancy rent controlled apartments in the City then buy big homes in the wine country.
 
cawacko said:
More people come to the U.S. than leave the country so it's very few that decide to move overseas. Within the U.S. there is no place better for weather and ocean than California. Much of Asia is hot as sh*t, it does not beat California.

The SPM is the updated and more progressive measure of poverty. California is at around 20% I believe which is the highest in the country. We have the most wealth and we have the highest poverty.

What do you have against Texas?
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I find the SPM to be an inferior measure, when it comes to comparing between states. The problem with it is that it adjusts for housing cost. To see the problem with that, exaggerate the differences between areas so that it becomes really obvious. For example, picture one person who has little expendable income after his housing cost, but thanks to where he lives, he has little crime, lots of high-quality free cultural experiences, top-notch public schools, etc. Now, picture someone else with a little more expendable income after his housing costs, but he lives in such a nasty area that to afford the same lifestyle, he'd need to hire a guard to keep him safe, shell out for lots of paid cultural experiences, pay to put the kids in decent private schools, etc. If you're adjusting for housing costs without also adjusting for what that superior housing situation affords people, you're creating a meaningless basis for comparison.

As for what I have against Texas -- it strikes me as OK, overall, other than the Texans.
 
Oneuli said:
I find the SPM to be an inferior measure, when it comes to comparing between states. The problem with it is that it adjusts for housing cost. To see the problem with that, exaggerate the differences between areas so that it becomes really obvious. For example, picture one person who has little expendable income after his housing cost, but thanks to where he lives, he has little crime, lots of high-quality free cultural experiences, top-notch public schools, etc. Now, picture someone else with a little more expendable income after his housing costs, but he lives in such a nasty area that to afford the same lifestyle, he'd need to hire a guard to keep him safe, shell out for lots of paid cultural experiences, pay to put the kids in decent private schools, etc. If you're adjusting for housing costs without also adjusting for what that superior housing situation affords people, you're creating a meaningless basis for comparison.

As for what I have against Texas -- it strikes me as OK, overall, other than the Texans.
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Except for when measuring poverty you can't say cost of housing doesn't matter. It plays a huge role. I'm not sure how much time you've spent in California but you seem to have a misconception of our reality. You mention great public schools. Yes we have them, in the rich areas. If you're poor you're not going to a good or great public school. You also mention culture. There are places in California that have a lot of culture but much of it you aren't doing if your poor.

And it was actually a progressive group that came up with the SPM because the old method was from around the '50's and very updated.

As one who has lived in Cali for 35 years there are many amazing things about this state. But people who aren't from here often put it up on a pesastal that just isn't true and I think that's what you are doing here.
 
cawacko said:
Except for when measuring poverty you can't say cost of housing doesn't matter. It plays a huge role. I'm not sure how much time you've spent in California but you seem to have a misconception of our reality. You mention great public schools. Yes we have them, in the rich areas. If you're poor you're not going to a good or great public school. You also mention culture. There are places in California that have a lot of culture but much of it you aren't doing if your poor.
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Yeah we know, we call that america. Its everywhere.
 
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