Lightbringer
Loves Me Some Souls
Dudes, dudes, dudes...you both suck major amounts of ass. You're both horrible, and stupid.
Can Artificial Intelligence have free will?
- Thread starter BidenPresident
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Dudes, dudes, dudes...you both suck major amounts of ass. You're both horrible, and stupid.
IBDaMann
Well-known member
You are committing a "No True Scotsman" fallacy. You are pretending that you are sole expert who gets to define "true" artificial intelligence ... without sharing this definition with the rest of us.
So, without further ado, you are mistaken. We (humanity) have true artificial intelligence and it is being utilized to substantially increase the bottom line of many businesses and to assist technical experts, e.g. doctors, just as if there were a Mr. Data there advising them.
It's already here.
Lightbringer
Loves Me Some Souls
You are committing a "No True Scotsman" fallacy. You are pretending that you are sole expert who gets to define "true" artificial intelligence ... without sharing this definition with the rest of us.
So, without further ado, you are mistaken. We (humanity) have true artificial intelligence and it is being utilized to substantially increase the bottom line of many businesses and to assist technical experts, e.g. doctors, just as if there were a Mr. Data there advising them.
It's already here.
He's not wrong, you are. You're making the claim so you have to prove AI exists. All I've seen so far are scraping applications. That's not AI.
Tinkerpeach
New member
IBM's Deep Blue computer.
IBDaMann
Well-known member
I'll just assume you are new at this and that you don't realize that you are making an affirmative argument here. You aren't asking "Hey, IBDaMann, why should anyone believe you? Can you offer any examples?" Instead, you are declaring me to be wrong. More on this below ...
Since you are making an affirmative argument, your lack of exposure and your overall ignorance on the subject does not suffice as support for your claim.
So, getting back to my point, if you were to crawl out from under your rock and check out how machine learning of huge data drives Amazon's business decisions and is responsible for all those product recommendations, you'd notice that AI successfully amplifies sales by 35%. Amazon also has Alexa and other less pronounced neural-net applications.
I made reference to AI being like having a Mr. Data right there to assist. Radiology systems now can access repositories of medical data and example cases to render diagnoses along with the MRI or CAT scan. Of course it is all intended to merely assist the human doctor who is responsible for making all decisions, but each image can also be accompanied by lots of relevant medical documentation and similar examples, with many things pointed out that perhaps the human doctor might have missed. Pattern recognition AI is far more accurate and complete in seconds than a human doctor with 20 years of experience pouring over an image for hours. It's a great tool to have assisting doctors.
There are many more examples, but these will have to suffice for now.
Lightbringer
Loves Me Some Souls
I'll just assume you are new at this and that you don't realize that you are making an affirmative argument here. You aren't asking "Hey, IBDaMann, why should anyone believe you? Can you offer any examples?" Instead, you are declaring me to be wrong. More on this below ...
Since you are making an affirmative argument, your lack of exposure and your overall ignorance on the subject does not suffice as support for your claim.
So, getting back to my point, if you were to crawl out from under your rock and check out how machine learning of huge data drives Amazon's business decisions and is responsible for all those product recommendations, you'd notice that AI successfully amplifies sales by 35%. Amazon also has Alexa and other less pronounced neural-net applications.
I made reference to AI being like having a Mr. Data right there to assist. Radiology systems now can access repositories of medical data and example cases to render diagnoses along with the MRI or CAT scan. Of course it is all intended to merely assist the human doctor who is responsible for making all decisions, but each image can also be accompanied by lots of relevant medical documentation and similar examples, with many things pointed out that perhaps the human doctor might have missed. Pattern recognition AI is far more accurate and complete in seconds than a human doctor with 20 years of experience pouring over an image for hours. It's a great tool to have assisting doctors.
There are many more examples, but these will have to suffice for now.
AI is nothing more than a scraping application.
Kiss my ass.
IBDaMann
Well-known member
You're nothing more than a moron who has no business discussing topics with grown-ups.
... and I can't kiss your ass until your father pulls out.
Lightbringer
Loves Me Some Souls
You're nothing more than a moron who has no business discussing topics with grown-ups.
... and I can't kiss your ass until your father pulls out.
It's not my fault you're ignorant.
Dutch Uncle
* Tertia Optio * Defend the Constitution
He's mainly insane. Sybil has a lot of issues upstairs.
IBDaMann
Well-known member
Dutch Uncle
* Tertia Optio * Defend the Constitution
Into the Night
Verified User
Scotsman fallacy.
AI is not sentience. AI is a programming technique. ALL AI is 'true' AI.
This programming technique is an old one, but because of more powerful machines available today, it can take on more an appearance of 'sentience'.
The technique itself is fairly simple:
Construct a program that incorporates a feedback loop into it's decision making. This decision making is often some kind of filter based on data developed in the feedback loop.
For example: in word recognition, an initial dictionary is constructed that acts as a 'cognitive' parser. Hooking recognized words and phrases to various programs gives the appearance of a sentient act. An excellent example of this is the Alexa service.
As the dictionary is used, a feedback loop is incorporated to improve recognition. For Alexa, the skill writers themselves correct what is meant by a phrase or word. All Amazon does is coordinate these feedbacks back into the main dictionary. Thus, as time progresses, the recognition improves even despite various accents and dialects in the language. After a few years, recognition is so good as to appear almost magickal. During that time also, more and more skills are being written by programmers to provide some action for recognized words. Essentially, then, as more programmers write skills for a language Alexa supports, the better Alexa is at recognizing words and phrases in that language.
That is AI. The technique of incorporating a feedback mechanism into data forming a decision matrix in software.
A very common use of AI is to improve data analysis itself. Managers want to know demographics, sales figures, predictions of sales, etc. AI can be very useful here because the feedback mechanism helps to improve the quality of these report summaries, and eventually provides options for different kinds of summaries. This is another case where the more the summaries are built, the better the summaries will be in the future.
Lately ChatGPT has become quite popular. This is essentially a dictionary that uses web searches as the feedback mechanism. Think of it like Google attached to an Alexa like recognition system. It only knows what Google itself has found on the web. As more and more people add pages to the web, the more ChatGPT can search them and provide better responses. ChatGPT uses Google searches and user interaction with it as the feedback loop. The more users use it, the better it gets; but it is still limited by what is searchable by places like Google. Obviously, there is a whole world that exists outside the web.
Will something like Colossus (as in the Forbin project fictional series) exist? No. The reason is that computers only 'know' what is fed to them. The computer itself is really just as dumb as your average washing machine timer. It's just a faster timer. The only data they have is what is given to them.
The Colossus as described in the Forbin Project series (and the movie of the first book of that series) makes use of magickal 'sensors' around the world monitoring all manner of amazing things, AND gives the machine a sentience or a free will. Computers have no free will and never will. They are always dependent on us for all their data and all their programming. They are just a general purpose sequencing machine and memory.
The Matrix movies was more about phenomenology than AI. This branch of philosophy defines what the word 'real' and 'reality' actually mean and why.
Of course the machines in Machine city 001 assumes much of the same kinds of thing as the Forbin project does...innumerable magickal sensors and a sentient nature of the computer (which has none).
It is time, once again, to realize that life is not the movies, or TV series, or video game, or any other similar medium. These are entertainment devices only, filled with some pretty good fiction and entertaining stories, but they ARE just stories. They are fiction. When it comes to science fiction, usually some theory of science is set aside or principle of engineering is set aside and a "what if" question is asked, with speculations going from there and developed into a story with protagonists, antagonists, and various 'NPC's' (or auxillary characters to flesh out the story).
A good corny example is the typical time travel type story...the "What if I go back in time and murder my own father?", type of story. It simply assumes time travel is possible and that some magickal device is constructed to time travel.
Into the Night
Verified User
Not possible, Sock.
Into the Night
Verified User
Define 'advanced'.
Is the technology for an EV, for example, more advanced than the gasoline engine? No. I have already described the reason why.
Into the Night
Verified User
I suppose you want to just completely disregard history. It's a history of scaring people into believing anything they are told. See 'religion'.
Into the Night
Verified User
Deep Blue, for all it's sophistication, is just a computer. It's nothing more than a general purpose sequencing device with a memory.
It many ways, Deep Blue and Watson are just precursors to what ChatGPT does. Web scrapers with a dictionary for 'cognitive' recognition, and programs written for them to use the search results.
Eventually it will.
Into the Night
Verified User
It is AI if and only if the scraping application uses a feedback loop to improve the decision matrix. That's what AI is...a programming technique.
IBDaMann is absolute correct here. Such systems are already being used to assist managers, data analysts, doctors, and even auto mechanics and other technicians. It appears in many video games (particularly good examples are Zelda Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom) where the feedback loop is used to adjust enemy difficulty and even adjust NPC responses. The Alexa and Google Home services are based on AI techniques. So is ChatGPT. It appears in driver assist and self driving cars. It is used to automatically tune a gasoline engine for best performance in just about every modern car today (part of the benefit of FADEC!).
Into the Night
Verified User
Redefinition fallacy.
AI is a programming technique that uses a feedback loop to adjust data that is used to build filters or to adjust a program's decisions.
Into the Night
Verified User
LIF. Grow up.