Capitalism Is EVIL!

[Yakuda]

control is not equal to stability.

sometimes control gets lopsided, out of whack with nature, leading to great volatility.

like a banker bailouts.

Correct

 

[Obtenebrator]

I didn't claim there are unregulated markets.

Then how do you know they work quite well? Magic of wishes?

 

[Yakuda]

Then how do you know they work quite well? Magic of wishes?

It's something called common sense. People freely entering into a contractual arrangement for the purpose of exchanging goods and services.

 

[zymurgy]

well, he can set a price. if other buy it is up to them.

and then we get into elastic and inelastic demand for instance.

the dream sequence of every corporation is to have a monopoly over products with relatively inelastic demand, like a monopoly on water would be good.

this is when free markets are at their best, when a cartel or corporation gains control of key resources, maybe through force and then ravages the world.

that's when you know you're free-markeing properly.

The seller can set the price as best offer

happens all the time. I have some thing I consider junk - list it for sale - best offer takes it. - where I know my floor is zero - if he is willing to haul it away, it's his

 

[zymurgy]

Nope. The buyer does too, or the house does not sell.
There MUST be an agreement of two parties for the transaction to take place.

The seller could ask for the Moon, but he won't necessarily sell his out for that.

Further, most real estate transactions require the seller to reveal certain information about the house or face fraud charges. Most counties and escrow houses take a dim view of failing to reveal certain information about a house or property you're selling to the buyer.

I guess you never sold any real estate.

you are missing how transactions can work

I don't have to say what an item is worth. I got an old popup camper in my driveway - for sale - best offer. an offer of zero but hauling it away would of been high enough, but the buyer has no idea

 

[Blackwater Lunchbreak]

The seller can set the price as best offer

happens all the time. I have some thing I consider junk - list it for sale - best offer takes it. - where I know my floor is zero - if he is willing to haul it away, it's his

ok but sometimes prices are too high and the deals don't happen.

everything isn't OBO.

 

[Obtenebrator]

It's something called common sense. People freely entering into a contractual arrangement for the purpose of exchanging goods and services.

Ahhh, so you are just guessing. I will remind you that contracts are extremely controlled arrangements.

 

[Into the Night]

what about monopolies?

In capitalism, monopolies are an unstable condition. It isn't long before some little company comes along and completely changes the market. A monopoly can only be sustained through government intervention.

all the alleged benefits of free trade are lost in monopoly / cartel conditions.

Not at all. Like I said, any large company becoming a monopoly is too slow to react to the market. Smaller companies will come along with a better and/or cheaper product. The same is true of any cartel.

should monopolies be busted up so free markets can continue to be great?

No need. They bust themselves up.

or are you just a full of shit fascist.

Capitalism isn't fascism. Buzzword fallacy.

 

[Into the Night]

well, he can set a price. if other buy it is up to them.

and then we get into elastic and inelastic demand for instance.

the dream sequence of every corporation is to have a monopoly over products with relatively inelastic demand, like a monopoly on water would be good.

this is when free markets are at their best, when a cartel or corporation gains control of key resources, maybe through force and then ravages the world.

that's when you know you're free-markeing properly.

The seller wants the highest price possible. The buyer wants the lowest price possible. No transaction takes place until they agree on a price. That's called 'price discovery' and is part of every free market. The nice thing about capitalism is that no one can force a price.

 

[zymurgy]

ok but sometimes prices are too high and the deals don't happen.

everything isn't OBO.

I said you only need one person to believe something has value for something to have value

it's pretty axiomatic, but you and fallacy boy decided to challenge it

 

[Into the Night]

I didn't realize you could get one of those in a Cracker Jack box.! Cool.

You can't.

 

[Into the Night]

True



Only if society collapses.

My prediction is that Bitcoin and other crypto currencies will be outlawed and various governments will switch to digital currency so they can manipulate and control it.

Okay. Let's discuss this 'society collapsing' thing.

But first, the Bitcoin thing.

Governments cannot control any blockchain currency. They can try to prohibit it's use, but that does not eliminate the currency.
Governments already use digital currency. In the United States, for example, most dollars are nothing more than bits on a disk somewhere. The paper bills you see are just a small part of the dollars in circulation.

Society has many facets. There are times of peace, times of war, times of famine, times of tyranny, times of freedom. It all is part of society. During all of these times, people will continue to buy and sell.

So what is 'collapsing'?

 

[Into the Night]

Because unregulated markets work so well! Which is why Bitcoin can go from thousands of dollars value each to cents in the blink of an eye.

They certainly can. One of the reasons I don't recommend Bitcoin or any other blockchain currency. I've already discussed this.

 

[Into the Night]

Potentially, so could oil, grain, or thousands of other commodities.

Governments don't like mediums of exchange they can't control. Bitcoin has done better than I ever expected it to - I probably should have invested, but never did.

Oil, grain, and other commodities have a real value that doesn't go away. It's fuel, food, and other goodies that people use.
Bitcoin is not a commodity. It is a currency and nothing more. It certainly can lose value quickly, even go to zero value. All it takes is for someone to break the blockchain. This has already happened to Bitcoin once. The Bitcoin you see now is Bitcoin2. Bitcoin1 became worthless.

 

[Obtenebrator]

You can't.

Huh. So the mystery remains how an anencephalic know-nothing such as yourself could become one.

But the easier guess is that you never did. You aren't telling the truth.

You certainly don't seem to have ANY education. Your posting style read more like a demented toddler than a functional adult.

 

[Into the Night]

Hence my comment about "unregulated" markets.

No, you are just confusing capitalism with fascism again.

Isn't that part and parcel of a government? To stabilize our markets?

No. Governments do not stabilize markets. Markets are self correcting. Goverments can and do DEstabiliize markets though. One recent example is the 2007 crash and resulting economic depression that lasted 9 years. Another one is the shutdown of economic activity by Democrats in 2019 and 2020 starting the current economic depression. During both depressions, the dollar was heavily devalued, resulting in people being thrown out of work and higher prices.

 

[Into the Night]

ORLY? Where?

See your local drug dealer.

or

See the history of the personal computer.

 

[Into the Night]

control is not equal to stability.

sometimes control gets lopsided, out of whack with nature, leading to great volatility.

like a banker bailouts.

Quite right. Governments destabilize markets. They do not stabilize them at all.
Markets are self correcting, unless government intervenes.

 

[Into the Night]

I didn't claim there are unregulated markets. I said unregulated markets work quite well. Markets are regulated but they aren't regulated for economic reasons they are most often regulated in a misguided attempt to make life "fair" and equitable. Price gouging is one of my favorite examples. I laugh every time at that one.

I do. There are unregulated markets. Examples:

The computer industry is one. No one regulates the computer industry.
The recreational drug market is another. No one regulates the drug dealers.

Even in heavily regulated markets like automobiles, lumber, housing, etc.; the free market still prevails, not because of government, but despite it.

 

[Into the Night]

ok but sometimes prices are too high and the deals don't happen.

everything isn't OBO.

Define 'prices too high'. Who are YOU to determine what is 'too high'?

Transactions only occur when the two parties agree on a price. In every case, the price is just right. It's the agreed upon price.