Into the Night
Verified User
They are contracts. Informal agreements ARE contracts, just not necessarily enforceable by the courts.
Capitalism Is EVIL!
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IBDaMann
Well-known member
Nope. If it does not meet the requirements to be a contract, it is not a contract and is only an agreement. To that end, yes, any number of parties can agree to whatever they wish.
Then it is an informal agreement and not a contract.
Then they are simply agreeing, and not entering into a contract. I agree that people can agree to whatever.
Nope. Any contract lawyer can verify this for you. All contracts are agreements but not all agreements are contracts. To be a contract, the agreement has to meet the requirements to be a contract.
... well, it's more of how the law will view any particular agreement. If an agreement meets the requirements of being a contract, the law will look at it one way. If an agreement does not meet the requirements of being a contract, the law will look at it differently.
You are correct that there are really no legal requirements for an agreement to exist.
Into the Night
Verified User
You are describing yourself again. You cannot blame your problem on anybody else.
He's not a libertarian. Neither am I. You are hallucinating again.
Into the Night
Verified User
Corporations are not fascism. Redefinition fallacy.
IBDaMann
Well-known member
Yes, you are. You are currently holding the "everything is fascism" position. If a HUD office buys some pencils, that's fascism. Silly.
Lao Tse
Verified User
no.
I'm saying fascism is the union of state and corporate power.
that's not everything, cumstain.
Into the Night
Verified User
Fallacy fallacy. No strawman here.
Assumption of victory fallacy. You cannot win using fallacies.
No, it is bribery. In some cases legal, in other cases illegal. Bribery laws are pretty complicated, almost as complicated as the IRS trying to define the word 'income'.
Corporations are not 'selling out', or 'liars'. Corporations are businesses, such as the one I own and operate.
Fascism damages and destroys corporations.
Into the Night
Verified User
It is a contract, just not one that is always enforceable by the courts.
An informal agreement IS a contract.
An informal agreement IS a contract.
An informal agreement IS a contract. It has no requirements other than to be a mutual agreement between two (or more) parties.
You are correct. The law will tend to apply the parameters you describe. Informal agreements might just wind up being enforceable by the court because of this.
Not really. They will apply the same parameters, as defined by that State.
Such an agreement may even be enforceable by the court, depending on the State. Not always, of course, but it might.
Lao Tse
Verified User
sometimes fascism enable and enhances corporations, like when large military contactors get more profits and business when wars occur, so they get hawks elected.
its also fascism when government mandates green (environmental) solutions too; but some corporation are HELPED by that.
IBDaMann
Well-known member
I get it. Fascism is everything. Tyranny isn't everything. Nonetheless, you should have been using the word "tyranny."
Into the Night
Verified User
Corporations are not fascism. Redefinition fallacy.
Into the Night
Verified User
Corporations with government contracts is not fascism. Redefinition fallacy.
Governments passing laws to benefit corporations is not fascism either. Redefinition fallacy. Governments pass laws to prevent crime, for example. That definitely affects and benefits corporations.
Fascism is government interference in a market, not corporations that benefit by that interference. Reversal fallacy.
IBDaMann
Well-known member
Bad example. Large government contractors win large contracts in peacetime, and they must share the "profits" with the myriad of subcontractors needed to win the contract in the first place.
In war, the contracts of which you speak are awarded to contractors in and around the war zone.
Lao Tse
Verified User
when the business corrupts or even legally controls policymakers to their advantage that's fascism.
yes, state actors also benefit... long term.
we can call it something else if you want.
it's been traditionally called fascism.
Lao Tse
Verified User
when they have de facto control over policymakers through a myriad of means it's fascism
IBDaMann
Well-known member
Read another way, if a legislator finally realizes/understands the point that the VP of operations of Corporation X made concerning inert materials not posing any threat to a garbage dump, despite the PANIC-hype being spread by Marxist Climate Change justice warriors, you think that's fascism.
Silly.
Read another way, if State actors act for a better future, you think that's fascism.
Silly.
Sure, let's go with the traditional word for what you really mean, i.e. "tyranny."
Lao Tse
Verified User
no.
its means corporations and government combining forces to dominate everyone.
why are you doggedly pro crony capitalism/ fascism?
Banker bailouts are the biggest example.
are banker bailouts free trade or fascism?
for every "too big to fail" there are millions of "too small to succeed"s.
It's a big club, and you ain't in it. -- George Carlin
IBDaMann
Well-known member
OK. Now we're back to there not being any fascism whatsoever.
Why are you pro-spewing-gibberish. Were you traumatized by the English language when you were a child?
Suffice to say that your sentences rarely express a coherent thought, and woe be he who runs into your smokescreen of hijacked words.
Fascism is socialism marketed under strong nationalism, i.e. fascism is a leftist ideology. I have posted the definition for you several times. I will post a better description here from its creator. Accept or deny as you will.
THE DOCTRINE OF FASCISM
Benito Mussolini & Giovanni Gentile
Written in 1927, Published in 1932 in Enciclopedia Italiana
Like all sound political conceptions, Fascism is action and it is thought; action in which doctrine is immanent, and doctrine arising from a given system of historical forces in which it is inserted, and working on them from within (1). It has therefore a form correlated to contingencies of time and space; but it has also an ideal content which makes it an expression of truth in the higher region of the history of thought (2). There is no way of exercising a spiritual influence in the world as a human will dominating the will of others, unless one has a conception both of the transient and the specific reality on which that action is to be exercised, and of the permanent and universal reality in which the transient dwells and has its being. To know men one must know man; and to know man one must be acquainted with reality and its laws. There can be no conception of the State which is not fundamentally a conception of life: philosophy or intuition, system of ideas evolving within the framework of logic or concentrated in a vision or a faith, but always, at least potentially, an organic conception of the world.
Thus many of the practical expressions of Fascism such as party organization, system of education, and discipline can only be understood when considered in relation to its general attitude toward life. A spiritual attitude (3). Fascism sees in the world not only those superficial, material aspects in which man appears as an individual, standing by himself, self-centered, subject to natural law, which instinctively urges him toward a life of selfish momentary pleasure; it sees not only the individual but the nation and the country; individuals and generations bound together by a moral law, with common traditions and a mission which suppressing the instinct for life closed in a brief circle of pleasure, builds up a higher life, founded on duty, a life free from the limitations of time and space, in which the individual, by self-sacrifice, the renunciation of self-interest, by death itself, can achieve that purely spiritual existence in which his value as a man consists.
The conception is therefore a spiritual one, arising from the general reaction of the century against the materialistic positivism of the XIXth century. Anti-positivistic but positive; neither skeptical nor agnostic; neither pessimistic nor supinely optimistic as are, generally speaking, the doctrines (all negative) which place the center of life outside man; whereas, by the exercise of his free will, man can and must create his own world.
Fascism wants man to be active and to engage in action with all his energies; it wants him to be manfully aware of the difficulties besetting him and ready to face them. It conceives of life as a struggle in which it behooves a man to win for himself a really worthy place, first of all by fitting himself (physically, morally, intellectually) to become the implement required for winning it. As for the individual, so for the nation, and so for mankind (4). Hence the high value of culture in all its forms (artistic, religious, scientific) (5) and the outstanding importance of education. Hence also the essential value of work, by which man subjugates nature and creates the human world (economic, political, ethical, and intellectual).
This positive conception of life is obviously an ethical one. It invests the whole field of reality as well as the human activities which master it. No action is exempt from moral judgment; no activity can be despoiled of the value which a moral purpose confers on all things. Therefore life, as conceived of by the Fascist, is serious, austere, and religious; all its manifestations are poised in a world sustained by moral forces and subject to spiritual responsibilities. The Fascist disdains an “easy " life (6).
The Fascist conception of life is a religious one (7), in which man is viewed in his immanent relation to a higher law, endowed with an objective will transcending the individual and raising him to conscious membership of a spiritual society. "Those who perceive nothing beyond opportunistic considerations in the religious policy of the Fascist regime fail to realize that Fascism is not only a system of government but also and above all a system of thought.
In the Fascist conception of history, man is man only by virtue of the spiritual process to which he contributes as a member of the family, the social group, the nation, and in function of history to which all nations bring their contribution. Hence the great value of tradition in records, in language, in customs, in the rules of social life (8). Outside history man is a nonentity. Fascism is therefore opposed to all individualistic abstractions based on eighteenth century materialism; and it is opposed to all Jacobinistic utopias and innovations. It does not believe in the possibility of "happiness" on earth as conceived by the economistic literature of the XVIIIth century, and it therefore rejects the theological notion that at some future time the human family will secure a final settlement of all its difficulties. This notion runs counter to experience which teaches that life is in continual flux and in process of evolution. In politics Fascism aims at realism; in practice it desires to deal only with those problems which are the spontaneous product of historic conditions and which find or suggest their own solutions (9). Only by entering in to the process of reality and taking possession of the forces at work within it, can man act on man and on nature (10).
Anti-individualistic, the Fascist conception of life stresses the importance of the State and accepts the individual only in so far as his interests coincide with those of the State, which stands for the conscience and the universal, will of man as a historic entity (11). It is opposed to classical liberalism which arose as a reaction to absolutism and exhausted its historical function when the State became the expression of the conscience and will of the people. Liberalism denied the State in the name of the individual; Fascism reasserts
The rights of the State as expressing the real essence of the individual (12). And if liberty is to he the attribute of living men and not of abstract dummies invented by individualistic liberalism, then Fascism stands for liberty, and for the only liberty worth having, the liberty of the State and of the individual within the State (13). The Fascist conception of the State is all embracing; outside of it no human or spiritual values can exist, much less have value. Thus understood, Fascism, is totalitarian, and the Fascist State - a synthesis and a unit inclusive of all values - interprets, develops, and potentates the whole life of a people (14).
Nope. Fascist socialist States are the top examples. Nazi Germany, Khmer Rouge Cambodia, Mussolini Italy, Stalinist Russia, Chavez' Venezuela, North Korea, etc ...
Fiscal policy is not fascism.
The "too big to fail" policy is a bad one. Bad policies do not equate to fascism. Mistakes in judgement are not fascism.
Into the Night
Verified User
Nope. That's bribery.
Corporations are not the government.
Corporations are not fascism.
Bribery is not fascism.
Redefinition fallacies.
Into the Night
Verified User
They don't. Not fascism.