Christian ethics vs. Roman values

Dutch Uncle said:
Your choice. Disagreed. It's a free country.

About 3/4s of Americans are Christians. About 2B people around the world are Christian with another 2B being Muslim.

Even if you hate Christianity with every part of your being like Jack, if you want to change something, it's important to understand it first. You don't want to understand it because hate isn't about understanding. Hate is about destruction.

IMO, it appears Cypress was raised Russian Orthodox, I don't see him proselytizing or even very religious where religious dogma conflicts with science/reality/fact.
Click to expand...

Bart Ehrman of the University of North Carolina religious studies department is both a self-identified agnostic and one of the nation's foremost New Testament scholars.

He undoubtedly finds religion to both an inherently interesting subject,and one that gives him deeper insights into history, culture, sociology, anthropology, and the human experience.
 
Dutch Uncle said:
What evidence is there that this moral Universal Law exists?

Natural Laws exist; no matter how much faith a person has, if they step off a 10-story ledge, the result will be from Natural Law, not a Universal morality.

:)
Click to expand...
The Confucian scholar Mencius had a proof that a universal morality exists.

According to him, if any of us saw a child falling into a well, we would all have that momentary reaction where we feel an intense surge of pity, concern, and compassion, whether or not we know the child - and all humans feel that reaction, sinners and saints alike
 
Cypress said:
The Confucian scholar Mencius had a proof that a universal morality exists.

According to him, if any of us saw a child falling into a well, we would all have that momentary reaction where we feel an intense surge of pity, concern, and compassion, whether or not we know the child - and all humans feel that reaction, sinners and saints alike
Click to expand...

Evolution. Don't get between a mama bear and her cub or you'll find out the relativity of Bear Morality. :)

It's good evolutionary trait for a species to either care for their young, as larger mammals do, or have a shitload of them like rabbits and fish do. No morality necessary.
 
Dutch Uncle said:
Evolution. Don't get between a mama bear and her cub or you'll find out the relativity of Bear Morality. :)

It's good evolutionary trait for a species to either care for their young, as larger mammals do, or have a shitload of them like rabbits and fish do. No morality necessary.
Click to expand...

I think the reason Jimmy Carter is almost universally respected is because of his consistent decency and his genuine commitment to putting his ethical principles into action.

On the flipside, even the most passionate Trump defender will openly admit Trump is morally corrupt and ethically despicable.

I don't think that is primarily DNA-related. Most of us seem to inherently recognize the superiority of moral clarity -- even those jpp posters who don't practice it themselves!
 
Cypress said:
I think the reason Jimmy Carter is almost universally respected is because of his consistent decency and his genuine commitment to putting his ethical principles into action.

On the flipside, even the most passionate Trump defender will openly admit Trump is morally corrupt and ethically despicable.

I don't think that is primarily DNA-related. Most of us seem to inherently recognize the superiority of moral clarity -- even those jpp posters who don't practice it themselves!
Click to expand...

Agreed. He would have been a terrific peacetime President and was a decent President even though the times demanded a stronger hand on the tiller.

Trump should go down as the worst President ever but will certainly go down as the worst President of the 21st Century....that's with the hope that We, the People, and the Republican Party, aren't so fucked up as to make the same mistake twice.
 
Cypress said:
The Confucian scholar Mencius had a proof that a universal morality exists.

According to him, if any of us saw a child falling into a well, we would all have that momentary reaction where we feel an intense surge of pity, concern, and compassion, whether or not we know the child - and all humans feel that reaction, sinners and saints alike
Click to expand...

No doubt it's an evolutionary survival mechanism. We wouldn't last long as a species without the innate compulsion to protect our young.
 
Cypress said:
The Confucian scholar Mencius had a proof that a universal morality exists.

According to him, if any of us saw a child falling into a well, we would all have that momentary reaction where we feel an intense surge of pity, concern, and compassion, whether or not we know the child - and all humans feel that reaction, sinners and saints alike
Click to expand...

And than 50% would walk away.
 
ThatOwlWoman said:
No doubt it's an evolutionary survival mechanism. We wouldn't last long as a species without the innate compulsion to protect our young.
Click to expand...

I think there's an element of truth to that.
A certain rudimentary altruism and cooperation can probably be related to genetic evolution.

On the other hand, babies, toddlers, small juveniles are relentlessly selfish and utterly self centered. If left to their own devices without adult supervision, I wonder if there is a Lord of the Flies scenario in the making.

It seems possible that ethics like justice, mercy, humility, modesty, temperance originate from social conditioning.
 
Cypress said:
I think there's an element of truth to that.
A certain rudimentary altruism and cooperation can probably be related to genetic evolution.

On the other hand, babies, toddlers, small juveniles are relentlessly selfish and utterly self centered. If left to their own devices without adult supervision, I wonder if there is a Lord of the Flies scenario in the making.

It seems possible that ethics like justice, mercy, humility, modesty, temperance originate from social conditioning.
Click to expand...

Genetics. A two-year old will stab another one in the eye with a pencil over a two so it's up to the adults to keep sharp objects away from younger children.

Look at WWII and tell me there's a universal morality in the world. /sarcasm :)

https://www.nationalww2museum.org/s.../research-starters-worldwide-deaths-world-war
WORLDWIDE CASUALTIES*

Battle Deaths 15,000,000
Battle Wounded 25,000,000
Civilian Deaths 45,000,000
Click to expand...
 
Dutch Uncle said:
Genetics. A two-year old will stab another one in the eye with a pencil over a two so it's up to the adults to keep sharp objects away from younger children.

Look at WWII and tell me there's a universal morality in the world. /sarcasm :)

https://www.nationalww2museum.org/s.../research-starters-worldwide-deaths-world-war
Click to expand...
Stalin's apparatchiks went to extraordinary lengths to hide the nature of their crimes because they must have intuitively known they were acting contrary to a universal moral conscience.

Pol Pot and Mao were also keen to keep their crimes away from the light of day.


I just feel like if mercy, justice, humans humility, charity were just programmed into our DNA there would have never been a need for there to be the great moral philosophers of history: Aristotle, Jesus, Zarathustra, Sidartha Guatauma, Confucius, Laozi.
 
Cypress said:
Stalin's apparatchiks went to extraordinary lengths to hide the nature of their crimes because they must have intuitively known they were acting contrary to a universal moral conscience.

Pol Pot and Mao were also keen to keep their crimes away from the light of day.


I just feel like if mercy, justice, humans humility, charity were just programmed into our DNA there would have never been a need for there to be the great moral philosophers of history: Aristotle, Jesus, Zarathustra, Sidartha Guatauma, Confucius, Laozi.
Click to expand...

What about this crime ?607746832030277ec967697e.jpg
 
Cypress said:
Stalin's apparatchiks went to extraordinary lengths to hide the nature of their crimes because they must have intuitively known they were acting contrary to a universal moral conscience.

Pol Pot and Mao were also keen to keep their crimes away from the light of day.


I just feel like if mercy, justice, humans humility, charity were just programmed into our DNA there would have never been a need for there to be the great moral philosophers of history: Aristotle, Jesus, Zarathustra, Sidartha Guatauma, Confucius, Laozi.
Click to expand...

Disagreed. More likely they were hiding their crimes from the culture. No doubt you don't believe the Germans who said they didn't have a fucking clue on what happened inside the concentration camps.

The conspiracy theorists think George Bush himself controlled the drones into the WTC and disbelieve the tens of thousands of people who were part of the investigation, clean-up and intelligence on the enemy. Such crimes can be hidden only temporarily.

My best examples against conspiracy theory nonsense is the Manhattan Project, Gulf of Tonkin and MKUltra; all commonly brought up by conspiracy theorists yet all revealed to the world within a few years. Secrets don't stay secrets for long. Eventually it all comes out. IMO, Stalin and his cronies were smart enough to know that fact.

As for Pol Pot and Mao, it wasn't secret from their people. They tried to keep it in country....and look what happened. LOL

I've never heard of any psych or other experiments on this line. "Clean slate" is a common word for human newborns except for a few things like suckling. Genetic traits show up later, different personalities and such but nothing that appears to be programming.

Consider the importance of a mother "bonding" with her child. If it was innate, why wouldn't it just happen? The bond has to grow.
 
Dutch Uncle said:
Disagreed. More likely they were hiding their crimes from the culture. No doubt you don't believe the Germans who said they didn't have a fucking clue on what happened inside the concentration camps.

The conspiracy theorists think George Bush himself controlled the drones into the WTC and disbelieve the tens of thousands of people who were part of the investigation, clean-up and intelligence on the enemy. Such crimes can be hidden only temporarily.

My best examples against conspiracy theory nonsense is the Manhattan Project, Gulf of Tonkin and MKUltra; all commonly brought up by conspiracy theorists yet all revealed to the world within a few years. Secrets don't stay secrets for long. Eventually it all comes out. IMO, Stalin and his cronies were smart enough to know that fact.

As for Pol Pot and Mao, it wasn't secret from their people. They tried to keep it in country....and look what happened. LOL

I've never heard of any psych or other experiments on this line. "Clean slate" is a common word for human newborns except for a few things like suckling. Genetic traits show up later, different personalities and such but nothing that appears to be programming.

Consider the importance of a mother "bonding" with her child. If it was innate, why wouldn't it just happen? The bond has to grow.
Click to expand...

People in Russia had a fairly good sense of what was going on.

One motivation for even having the Gulag and the purges was to terrorize Soviet citizens into submission

Stalin was keen to hide from the rest of the world what was going on. Stalin kept a pretty good embargo on news getting out of the country. Seems to me that Soviet government intuitively knew they were violating a universal moral conscience.

World War 1 and 2 were so shocking to the universal moral conscience of the world that a plethora of landmark international treaties, human rights conventions, and war crimes tribunals were vigorously pursued in their aftermath.

I think mammals are genetically evolved for a certain level of altruism and cooperation. The more advanced moral metaphysics seems to spring forth From higher intelligence and reason. In a sense, that seems like a universal moral conscientiousness to me
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top