Do you see how he has appointed himself boss of my thread?
Dick Cheney Was Right
- Thread starter Cancel7
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Do you see how he has appointed himself boss of my thread?
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The Almighty
No, that is YOUR strawman.
A unique human life is formed when the egg cell and sperm cell combine. A frozen fertilized egg is still a unique human. The stasis came into play as to whether or not it was alive or not. You said that freezing it equated to it being dead... hence killing it. I told you that once again your ignorance was shining bright.
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The Almighty
You need to learn to read. I simply told her what "I" was going to do. I provided her a suggestion. I did not say she couldn't continue trying to desperately turn the thread away from killing innocent kids into yet another 'Bush bad' thread.
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The Almighty
Translation: "Shit, I walked right into that one"
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The Almighty
You ordered her to start another thread if she wants to talk about the iraq war, as if she can't talk about that anywhere on here, and especially on my thread! Why are you on here bossing people about what they can or can't post on my thread? That's what I call appointing yourself boss of the thread.
And I answered, "It would depend on where you stand on the philosophical question of "personhood"." I then went further and explained what I have stated in this thread. No need to repeat that.
Are you again pretending that it is not the first stage of human life? Are you interjecting a philosophical position onto a definition where such a philosophical element doesn't exist to make yourself feel better? If you are I would ask, "Why?"
So far, my main position in this thread has been to point out that the first stage of a human life is the zygote. That it is both a life, and human. Just getting a supposed "scientist" in life science to just recognize a simple fact has been amazingly difficult as they keep trying to get into "right" and "wrong".
Will you recognize the first stage of human life? If so, then we can move onto the "right" and "wrong". If we can't agree on such a simple starting point the argument fails because it begins with different definitions of the same thing.
It would be like arguing directions to "Springfield" when we had maps of different states. One can get to "Springfield" but we wouldn't be talking about the same place at all.
Just limit it by time slots. It helps. Believe me.
Socrtease
Verified User
That is it, this guy HATED kids, forced himself to have 4 and they then had 10 themselves. Great cover for a child killer. We should expose them all for what they are. That has got to be one of the stupidest things I have ever heard you say on here. Tiller didn't just perform late term abortions for the fun of it. I lived in Kansas for 3 years, went to law school there. One of my class mates wife was pregnant. First sonogram somehow missed the fact that her child was going to be anecephalic. Meaning that while the child would have made a perfect right wing republican prolifer, the child was otherwise not going to have a brain. They caught it in the 8th month. She was crushed, she wanted a child more than anything. She had to go to Tiller, and your friends protesting outside yelled at her calling her a murderer and a whore. This woman who wanted nothing more than to have a child but instead got stuck with a body that had half a head. Tiller did not perform that abortion because he lusted to kill another child. He did it to save her the pain of going through the birth process only to see that her child was not a child at all and then watch as the brain stem slowly wound down and the body ceased to function. This is what is wrong with your side of the argument. You see nothing but fetuses and think they should all be forced into the world. That would mean another 1.3 million unwanted children in the world, clogging an already over taxed system that has 10s of thousands of unadoptable children stuck in limbo. This made all the more difficult because many of your prolife friends also don't want nasty old fags and dykes adopting children. The right wing in this country, like the left, very rarely EVER looks at the long term unintended consequences. All they see are the pictures of in utero children at 8 10 12 weeks of conception and see the cute little fingers and toes, and immediately equated aborting that fetus with putting a gun to 4 year olds head a shooting her. Nanny state do gooderism from the right is no better than it is from the left.
Socrtease
Verified User
You are completely wrong. Hitler systematically rounded up jews, gypsies, slaves etc, and FORCED them into camps where he had them worked to the point of death and then shot or gassed. NO ONE forces women to do anything, at least from the pro-choice side of the equation. Women in America are allowed to freely decide for themselves if they want to have the child or terminate the pregnancy. The fact that you can't see the difference, excluding the extraction of gold teeth, the theft of jewish homes and treasure, between the two proves my point perfectly. Your position comes solely from the emotional side and has very little foundation in logical discourse.
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The Almighty
LMAO... no I suggested she start a thread on it. My comments were to inform her that I wasn't planning on discussing Iraq on this thread. Once again your overly emotional state has caused you to mis-interpret what another person has written.
side note... this thread and all threads technically are Damo's... his board and all that... also... you may start a thread, but that doesn't make you boss of it....
And you either in ignorance or in stubborness miss the actual analogy of the comparison.
Hitler stated that Jews were less than human so he could rally support to mass murder them. Get the connection yet?
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The Almighty
Stop. Think. I know that can be hard for a lawyer, but do try. In the above you are equating the Jews and the Women who have the abortions. That is not the correct relationship. The VICTIMS are the Jews and the UNBORN children.
The dehumanization is NOT of the women. It is of the children. The dehumanization allows for pro-abortionists to justify taking that innocent life.
I am not saying that every aspect is the same as what Hitler did. But the dehumanization of a group of people to justify being able to kill them.... THAT is most certainly the same.
So.... do you believe an abortion ends a human life or do you, like Darla and others, pretend that it isn't human and thus the woman should have a 'choice' as to whether or not to kill the child?
Oh I am so sorry Soc. I had never heard of this condition and didn't even know a baby could be born without a brain until several years ago. It's so horrible, and I know i cannot even begin to imagine that. I did watch my dad die slowly from a traumatic brain event, and that almost put me down. That's why when I say that I think that the people who would force a woman, and let's face it, the father too because that is just has horrific for him, to give birth to a baby in that state and have to hold it in your arms and somehow get it through your heart that because it has no brain it's not a baby, it doesn't feel, it's not smiling at you, oh Jesus, and then to watch it die, and I think that those are the monsters. The true monsters. I know of no other word for it.
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The Almighty
Side note... my position comes from
1) Scientific FACT
2) The belief that all human beings are entitled to basic human rights protections.
Both are completely logical.
The illogical ones are those who:
1) Ignore the Scientific FACT
2) Believe that one persons convenience is a higher priorty than anothers right to live.
Neither of which is logical.
Socrtease
Verified User
Very interesting position paper on abortion by third way.
http://www.thirdway.org/data/product/file/17/demographics_of_abortion.pdf
Of interest to me,
30% of minors seeking abortions attributed their decision in part to the fact that their parents wanted them to have abortions.
Upon learning of their daughters’ pregnancies, parents favored abortion over
childbirth by a 4 to 1 ratio
Of the 1.3 million abortions in America each year, about 90,000 occur due to the
health of the fetus, mother, or rape or incest
For every 100 pregnancies in America, 52 were planned and 48 were unplanned.
Among the 48% of pregnancies that were unintended, the percentage of
abortions to live births is 54% to 46%.
The argument that abortion is widely used as a method of birth control is not borne
out by the data. Slightly over half of those having an abortion will have only one. Of the
remaining group that has had more than one abortion, more than half will have only
two. It is more likely that a woman who has an abortion has already had a previous birth
than a previous abortion.
• 61% of women who have an abortion have had a prior birth
• 48% of women who have an abortion have had a previous abortion
Abortion is the last worst choice a woman has to make when she gets pregnant. Third Way wants to make unintended pregnancy less common, it already is among teens and abortions have been declining in the country steadily for a while now. Making it illegal is not going to stop it. When Romania was ruled by communism they had a law that forbid abortion, women were required to go through regular exams and STILL a country that size had almost as many abortions as we do today. I sometimes think that is the US the right would like. One where the government forces women into a gynecological chair on a regular basis to make sure they stay pregnant.
http://www.thirdway.org/data/product/file/17/demographics_of_abortion.pdf
Of interest to me,
30% of minors seeking abortions attributed their decision in part to the fact that their parents wanted them to have abortions.
Upon learning of their daughters’ pregnancies, parents favored abortion over
childbirth by a 4 to 1 ratio
Of the 1.3 million abortions in America each year, about 90,000 occur due to the
health of the fetus, mother, or rape or incest
For every 100 pregnancies in America, 52 were planned and 48 were unplanned.
Among the 48% of pregnancies that were unintended, the percentage of
abortions to live births is 54% to 46%.
The argument that abortion is widely used as a method of birth control is not borne
out by the data. Slightly over half of those having an abortion will have only one. Of the
remaining group that has had more than one abortion, more than half will have only
two. It is more likely that a woman who has an abortion has already had a previous birth
than a previous abortion.
• 61% of women who have an abortion have had a prior birth
• 48% of women who have an abortion have had a previous abortion
Abortion is the last worst choice a woman has to make when she gets pregnant. Third Way wants to make unintended pregnancy less common, it already is among teens and abortions have been declining in the country steadily for a while now. Making it illegal is not going to stop it. When Romania was ruled by communism they had a law that forbid abortion, women were required to go through regular exams and STILL a country that size had almost as many abortions as we do today. I sometimes think that is the US the right would like. One where the government forces women into a gynecological chair on a regular basis to make sure they stay pregnant.
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The Almighty
This is where you fail. Because it most certainly IS the same as pulling that trigger on a 4 year old. Both are unique human lives. In both cases you are choosing to end that life.
I beleive they are both entitled to basic human rights protections. You don't.
That is not nanny state, that is protecting the innocent. If some group of psychotics were running around killing new-borns, you would rise up and defend them against the psychotics.
What changes in that minute that the child emerges that makes you defend one and not the other?