Dick Cheney Was Right

This thread has evolved in a great way.

As wrong as they can often be, I would never call either Damo or SF stupid. I'm sure by now they realize the conundrum of hair-splitting that they have gotten themselves into, and the inherent contradiction & double-standard in what they are arguing.

I won't hold my breath waiting for either to admit that, however...

Please explain the double standard. You are comparing freezing a fertilized egg to abortion. That is not factually correct. Freezing the egg does not kill it. Freezing it does not change the fact that it is a unique human. Its growth is obviously in stasis until it is unfrozen and implanted.
 
Cryostasis is the reversible cryopreservation of live biological objects.

Okay, "frozen"... I like using "stasis" because it apparently bothers you, and because it is more accurate.

I also like using it because they are put into cryostasis, which term is shorted to "stasis" by the people who do the work.

I dislike fertility clinics, and believe that many lives are lost in them, lives that were created artificially for "want" rather than "need". Whether those lives counted as "people" when they were taken doesn't change that they were human lives and taken almost always for "want" rather than for "need" and during the Bush years often they were taken for no purpose at all. It makes it only a minuscule better that they may now sometimes be used for research funded by the Federal Government so that their deaths may have some purpose other than to be created for the frivolous want of a couple who refuses to adopt a child that is in need.


Damn it.... I just got credit for creating a word and you had to go and take that away from me. Dirty bastard.

That said, I agree with the above.
 
This thread has evolved in a great way.

As wrong as they can often be, I would never call either Damo or SF stupid. I'm sure by now they realize the conundrum of hair-splitting that they have gotten themselves into, and the inherent contradiction & double-standard in what they are arguing.

I won't hold my breath waiting for either to admit that, however...
I have split no hair. I have pointed out to you that a zygote is the first stage of human life, and that trying to say it isn't a human life is retarded. It's like saying an infant isn't human life because it isn't an adult yet, it's preposterous. You have to twist so much in order to make that argument. Even in your fifth grade sex ed class you heard, "And thus begins life..." at the stage when the spermatozoa meets the egg.

Again, you can argue the philosophical argument of "personhood" but saying it isn't a human life is deliberate ignorance of fact.
 
I have split no hair. I have pointed out to you that a zygote is the first stage of human life, and that trying to say it isn't a human life is retarded. It's like saying an infant isn't human life because it isn't an adult yet, it's preposterous. You have to twist so much in order to make that argument. Even in your fifth grade sex ed class you heard, "And thus begins life..." at the stage when the spermatozoa meets the egg.

Again, you can argue the philosophical argument of "personhood" but saying it isn't a human life is deliberate ignorance of fact.

So by that standard shouldn't most forms of birth control be banned?
 
I am judging based on the information that Darla was using as justification. If you have something that shows the womans life was in danger, then that changes the situation.

I can assure you that any time a woman delivers conjoined twins there is a very high mortality/morbidity rate but you can do your own research. The data should be on CDC or NIH.
 
So by that standard shouldn't most forms of birth control be banned?
It would depend on the argument of "personhood" and where one stood there. I've yet to make any argument in that neighborhood on this thread. At one point I expressed a personal opinion on clinics, but I haven't made an argument for or against abortion or anything here. I am simply pointing out the silliness of trying to ignore that the first stage of human life is still human life just so you can say that it isn't killing a human life....

It is quite literally rejecting science and ejaculating philosophy onto things... it might make you feel good, but it isn't science.

There is nothing else that zygote is except at least one human being, there is no doubt that it is alive. The attempt to make it not "human" or "not alive" is just retarded. It's like listening to somebody try to argue that ID is science.
 
It would depend on the argument of "personhood" and where one stood there. I've yet to make any argument in that neighborhood on this thread. At one point I expressed a personal opinion on clinics, but I haven't made an argument for or against abortion or anything here. I am simply pointing out the silliness of trying to ignore that the first stage of human life is still human life just so you can say that it isn't killing a human life....

It is quite literally rejecting science and ejaculating philosophy onto things... it might make you feel good, but it isn't science.

There is nothing else that zygote is except at least one human being, there is no doubt that it is alive. The attempt to make it not "human" or "not alive" is just retarded. It's like listening to somebody try to argue that ID is science.
Actually lets be clear. Most forms of pharmaceutical birth control do not prevent the sperm from fertilizing the ovum. They prevent the fertilized ovum from adhering to the wall of the uterus and the fertilized ovum (a human life if you define human life as begining at fertilization, a valid scientific definition) will die and be flushed from the uterus.

So the questions I ask you. If human life begins at fertilization and "the pill" prevents the fertilized ovum from implanting on the uterus thus resulting in it's death, have you killed a human life? If so, would not pharmaceutical birth control then be just as immoral as an early stage abortion?
 
Last edited:
That's why conjoined twins are always delivered cesarian section.
And so does that mean there is no mortality or morbidity involved in that procedure? If after the ceaserian section both conjoined twins die does the ceaserian section have a lower mortality/morbidity rate then intact D&X? And who is best qualified to make that judgement? A lay person such as yourself or a highly qualified and trained physician or the persons whose life, health and well being is at risk?
 
SF - How do you rationalize fertility clinics given your position? Seriously. I'm quite curious. No bullshit.

Most folks would at least concede that, whatever you want to call a fertilized egg, it has zero chance of survival unless and until it is implanted in the uterus so fertilized eggs in fertility clinics stand on a different footing from fertilized eggs implanted in the uterus. But you don't make that distinction so I'm intrigued.


UH, as far as I understood this; the eggs remained unfertalized, until just before implantation.
 
I am one who believes young woman should be drafted, also, if there is a draft. If it is not equal, I would not vote for it.

I, also, I probably would not vote for war, unless their war machines were on our soil.

You are correct and I should be fair, but it is just one issues that I truly believe that only the pregnant woman has the final say, if she is able to say.
 
Side note... I am pro-LIFE... you are pro-abortion/death. At least get your positions stated correctly. :)

Side note 2.... at no time did I think you would agree with the correct positions I presented. You are a denialist. I get that. You are too stubborn to admit you are wrong. I get that too. I have presented a legitimate argument for the pro-abortion crowd time and again and yet they always seem to come back to the idiocy of 'well da kid ain't a human being yet' or some such nonsense. Why can't they simply say... I do not support giving basic human rights to unborn children? Why resort to such idiocy?

Ah, those key words! Pro life! that means, you don't support war or the death penalty, right?

I am for individual rights to decide for themselves. I can not possible make such a personal decision for another woman.
 
Actually lets be clear. Most forms of pharmaceutical birth control do not prevent the sperm from fertilizing the ovum. They prevent the fertilized ovum from adhering to the wall of the uterus and the fertilized ovum (a human life if you define human life as begining at fertilization, a valid scientific definition) will die and be flushed from the uterus.

So the questions I ask you. If human life begins at fertilization and "the pill" prevents the fertilized ovum from implanting on the uterus thus resulting in it's death, have you killed a human life? If so, would not pharmaceutical birth control then be just as immoral as an early stage abortion?

Ah well, now you have hit on something. Before SF gets all overexcited, as is his habit, I am not speaking of him. Or of Damo. I have no idea how they feel about birth control, but I would assume they both use it.

But let's get to the organized anti-choice movement. It is widely known and understood that by and large, the organized so-called "pro-life" movement is religious-based and absolutely staunchly against sex education. That's known. What is less well-known outside of political, activist, and feminist circles, is that the organized movement is also largely anti birth-control as well. Are they all? Maybe not (though I would not accept verbal denials as proof), but they largely are.

These are the same people who agitate to allow pharmacists to not fill morning after pills, or even birth control pills. These are the same people who if you go their churches, read their organizational literature, you will find advocate sex being for procreation only. You simply do not prevent God's will, and you have intercourse with no birth control, though Catholics will often make the exception for the rhythm method, which is known in the sane world as "oops". Whenever you see a group using the phrase "abortifacient birth control" in their literature they are not talking about the morning after pill (which is also not an abortifacient). They are referring to IUD's and the birth control pill.

And now we get to why feminists write about the organized anti-choice movement being steeped in misogyny, the desire of conservative men to control women's bodies, the desire for conservative men and conservative women to engage in "slut-shaming", and the ultimate goals of the organized anti-choice movement being to put women back in the kitchen barefoot and pregnant, with their mouths shut, and living in their Utopia of the perfect Patriarchal family and society.
 
Last edited:
You should know, since you worked in that field. :clap:

I fail to see what working in the pig farming fields has to do with this, abba you cheerleading shit stirring 60 year old developmentally retarded fool.

A high school drop out, who got knocked up at 16 years of age and doesn't even have a ged did not "work in this field".

Jesus Christ on a cross you people never stop with your bullshit stories.
 
Ah well, now you have hit on something. Before SF gets all overexcited, as is his habit, I am not speaking of him. Or of Damo. I have no idea how they feel about birth control, but I would assume they both use it.
That would explain why SF has a nice rack!! LOL
 
Last edited:
Back
Top