Dick Cheney Was Right
- Thread starter Cancel7
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I do notice you use the same fallacy as those who say, "comparing African Americans to gays is so insulting to them they should be outraged."
I don't compare it to African Americans, that is silly. I compare the decision to other bad decisions and bring up one that everybody, even a 7th grader who just passed, is familiar with rather than bring up others that are less familiar.
Saying that because the courts say "this" now it must be right is inane, it ignores when the courts have been terribly wrong in the past and pretends a perfection that doesn't exist. The courts are not the quintessence of truth any more than lawyers are the quintessence of science.
Whether or not we agree on "personhood" doesn't change that the zygote is the first stage of human life. And pretending that it does is just retarded.
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The Almighty
Yes dear little Lorax, it is quite clear. The difference is that we were discussing a fertilized egg that was growing and developing....
now dung asked to discuss what about those that are frozen. As I stated, it is still human, but it is in stasis, it is not growing and developing. Do you need this to be spelled out again? Because you and the overly emotional Darla seem to be having a hard time comprehending this distinction in some vain attempt at a 'gotcha' moment.
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The Almighty
If the freezing process killed them lorax... just what exactly do they implant into women that allows them to come back to life?
What I'm saying is that I agree with the courts in this case, and that Roe V Wade just isn't going to be overturned, because whatever reservations Americans may have about abortion, and they vary, they don't r v w overturned, it would political suicide for the Republicans, as well as taking a way a great fundraiser and wedge issue, and that's why it hasn't happened.
If you disagree with the court, there is no reason to constantly compare abortion to slavery, and to pretend that this really lowlife strawman wasn't thought up by right wing operatives with a long history in racial politics, is really, well...disingenuous.
Anyway, I really have to get out of here, I don't have any more time today to answer every post SF makes on this thread, and he will never stop, tit for tat.
Enjoy your day boys.
That wasn't what you were saying, you tried to argue an assumption that didn't exist for a group that wasn't offended because you wanted what I said to mean what you wanted it say rather than reading what it did say.What I'm saying is that I agree with the courts in this case, and that Roe V Wade just isn't going to be overturned, because whatever reservations Americans may have about abortion, and they vary, they don't r v w overturned, it would political suicide for the Republicans, as well as taking a way a great fundraiser and wedge issue, and that's why it hasn't happened.
If you disagree with the court, there is no reason to constantly compare abortion to slavery, and to pretend that this really lowlife strawman wasn't thought up by right wing operatives with a long history in racial politics, is really, well...disingenuous.
Anyway, I really have to get out of here, I don't have any more time today to answer every post SF makes on this thread, and he will never stop, tit for tat.
Enjoy your day boys.
Courts have made poor decisions, there are many examples, some more glaring than others.
My argument isn't whether this one is "right" or "wrong" just that saying, "The courts say it is so, so it is so." is preposterous and ignorant, deliberately so. The courts are not always right, nor are they even close to being the proper measure of all things scientific.
I could compare it to less famous poor decisions by the court, but then people wouldn't know immediately what I was referring to, such as they do with Dred Scott. My point was that poor decisions are made, sometimes based on the current "scientific knowledge" that isn't really knowledge, nor scientific.
"Being in stasis" is just as much a qualification as viability, functionality or cognizance.
This IS a gotcha moment, SF, whether you realize it or not. You are definitive that the joining of a sperm & egg IS human, but are willing to make qualifications on when & how that human is "worth" saving.
You have burned yourself on this. I didn't have to do a thing.
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The Almighty
No dipshit it isn't a gotcha moment. A human in stasis does not make it non-human. It does not take away from its ability to grow and develop. It simply puts off the development stage. It is not the same as ending the life you moron.
One is a child that is alive, growing and developing. The other is equivacable to a human on life support. It doesn't have the ability to grow and develop unless it is implanted. That doesn't change the fact that is it indeed human. This is the slippery slope we have when we use technology to alter the life cycle.... whether it be in freezing fertilized eggs or putting someone on life support.
LOL. This is funny. Are you arguing that being in stasis is the same thing as being dead? So many kids born from clinics are the walking dead....
I keep chuckling...
"Stasis" is just a horseshit term that SF made up out of thin air because freezing children doesn't sound so nice. In any event, many many many (hundreds of thousands) of the frozen children in fertility clinics just remain frozen indefinitely even though they degrade after about 10 years. Still others are murdered in the thawing process. Others are just discarded. Others that survive the thawing process are murdered in the in vitro process.
Chuckle all you want, but according to SF's formulation that's a whole hell of a lots of murdered children.
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The Almighty
you see, when they implant the previously frozen embryos, they are at first zombies that have to await the magic baby fairy to turn them human again.
Yeah, I don't like that we mess with human life like that. Are you now arguing that it was immoral to create these children for convenience when there are many who were not artificially created that need parents or are you pretending still that stasis is the same thing as dead? Because the stasis=dead argument is funny.
You can argue that they are not "people" yet, but arguing that it isn't human life is deliberately ignorant of factual information.
1) Quit saying "stasis." SF just made that term up because he doesn't want to talk about frozen children.
2) I'm not arguing anything. I'm simply pointing out that if one were to take the view that all fertilized eggs are children there is an industry thriving in the United States that creates children just to murder them and the industry is not protected by established Supreme Court precedent. Seems to be a good place to start if you are concerned with the murder of children.
I seldom hear anyone complaining about these senseless murders, you and SF included. You say "I don't like that we mess with human life like that." The systemized murder of children, babies, kids "messing with human life?" That's weird. I trust your criticisms of abortion are similarly meek and mealy-mouthed.
3) And no, frozen isn't dead but for the bulk of frozen eggs that is the end result.
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The Almighty
"A fertilized egg that is frozen is more in stasis. sorry, but that is the best way I can describe it... it is neither growing/developing nor is it dead... this goes back to my comment on how our increased technology allows us to screw around with the natural life cycle."
The above was my response to your question. As I said, 'stasis' was the best way I knew to describe the situation. The frozen embryo is not dead and it is not growing and developing. How else would you describe it???
Please enlighten us Dung. How would you describe that state of being?
Frozen.
And now it's an embryo? I thought it was a child, baby, kid, tot, tyke, little guy, and cetera.
Cryostasis is the reversible cryopreservation of live biological objects.
Okay, "frozen"... I like using "stasis" because it apparently bothers you, and because it is more accurate.
I also like using it because they are put into cryostasis, which term is shorted to "stasis" by the people who do the work.
I dislike fertility clinics, and believe that many lives are lost in them, lives that were created artificially for "want" rather than "need". Whether those lives counted as "people" when they were taken doesn't change that they were human lives and taken almost always for "want" rather than for "need" and during the Bush years often they were taken for no purpose at all. It makes it only a minuscule better that they may now sometimes be used for research funded by the Federal Government so that their deaths may have some purpose other than to be created for the frivolous want of a couple who refuses to adopt a child that is in need.
Whether you "seldom" hear about it, many argue it. They create places where couples who want a child can adopt these embryos in cryostasis and bring them to term rather than to death. Why? Because they don't want them killed.
This thread has evolved in a great way.
As wrong as they can often be, I would never call either Damo or SF stupid. I'm sure by now they realize the conundrum of hair-splitting that they have gotten themselves into, and the inherent contradiction & double-standard in what they are arguing.
I won't hold my breath waiting for either to admit that, however...
As wrong as they can often be, I would never call either Damo or SF stupid. I'm sure by now they realize the conundrum of hair-splitting that they have gotten themselves into, and the inherent contradiction & double-standard in what they are arguing.
I won't hold my breath waiting for either to admit that, however...
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The Almighty
Frozen child/baby ..... you idiots really make me laugh. Such complete desperation to avoid admitting that abortions take the life of a child.