Eastern philosophy says the self is an illusion

NiftyNiblick said:
Well, it does.

It says that it can neither prove nor disprove free will
because it's not a scientific question.

Free will is an artifact of supernatural phenomena in the event that they actually exist.
Click to expand...

I decided to read and respond to your post. That is free will. Nothing forced me to do it. Absolutely nothing to do with the supernatural.
 
BidenPresident said:
I decided to read and respond to your post. That is free will. Nothing forced me to do it. Absolutely nothing to do with the supernatural.
Click to expand...

As usual, British Petroleum, you're 100% wrong.

You have no fucking idea why you read and responded to my post.
If there's a reason that you did it, it's NOT free will.
It there's no reason that you did it, it's NOT natural, it's supernatural.

People with sufficient intelligence would understand this,
but here we're asking too much of you, obviously.

You would have to understand the difference between believing and knowing,
and you've NEVER understood that through the conduct of all of our correspondence.
 
BidenPresident said:
I will never understand people like you who prefer to write insults and be ignored. So be it.
Click to expand...

I believe you.
There is an overwhelming number of things that you don't seem to understand, BP.
Not being able to differentiate between what you know and what you believe is one of your more egregious failures of understanding..
 
NiftyNiblick said:
Since all of the physical world is subject to cause and effect natural science,
where everything occurs as a result of what preceded it,
free will would be IMPOSSIBLE to confirm scientifically.

It would absolutely require a belief in the supernatural.
I admittedly cannot prove that the supernatural doesn't exist,
but in as much as I've never had a supernatural experience of any kind to my knowledge,
I certainly can't be inclined to believe that it does.

Consequently, free will is a matter of belief, not science,
and even if we all proceed in our lives as if free will does indeed exist,
there's no proof that we're even doing that of our own free will.

You allude to humanity's separation from the remainder of the animal kingdom.
I don't see any evidence of that, either.

We're a dominant species because of our intelligence,
but in terms of our physical prowess,
we can't even count the species that would kick our asses in unarmed conflict.

I was a professional boxer and an adolescent tiger would show me how much that proves
if it were inclined to do so.

Again, I'm not claiming that you're wrong, Oom.
Understand that.

You should, however, be less dismissive of alternate beliefs on these matters,
and also less inclined to stipulate your own as if they were fact.

Free will is a belief and very far from a proven fact.
Click to expand...
Arthur C. Clarke's Second Rule: The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible.

The multiverse theory is a "belief" in the supernatural.

Your logic appears flawed.

How many other animals are capable of destroying all life on Earth?

Sure, there are stronger predators. You appear to be reaching for answers about free will and now you are talking about claws, size and teeth?

What does boxing and Tigers have to do with free will, neef?

Okey-dokey.

Disagreed. Some ideas can be easily dismissed such as the Earth is flat, the Moon Landing was a hoax and 9/11 was an inside job.

The ability of normal humans to choose between two or more options using reason is not a "belief", it's fact.
 
NiftyNiblick said:
Since all of the physical world is subject to cause and effect natural science,
where everything occurs as a result of what preceded it,
free will would be IMPOSSIBLE to confirm scientifically.

It would absolutely require a belief in the supernatural.
I admittedly cannot prove that the supernatural doesn't exist,
but in as much as I've never had a supernatural experience of any kind to my knowledge,
I certainly can't be inclined to believe that it does.

Consequently, free will is a matter of belief, not science,
and even if we all proceed in our lives as if free will does indeed exist,
there's no proof that we're even doing that of our own free will.

You allude to humanity's separation from the remainder of the animal kingdom.
I don't see any evidence of that, either.

We're a dominant species because of our intelligence,
but in terms of our physical prowess,
we can't even count the species that would kick our asses in unarmed conflict.

I was a professional boxer and an adolescent tiger would show me how much that proves
if it were inclined to do so.

Again, I'm not claiming that you're wrong, Oom.
Understand that.

You should, however, be less dismissive of alternate beliefs on these matters,
and also less inclined to stipulate your own as if they were fact.

Free will is a belief and very far from a proven fact.
Click to expand...

Quantum mechanics proves there can be uncaused causes.
I think determinism in a very real sense died with Niels Bohr and Erwin Schoedinger.

We have no knowledge of what caused the big bang, what caused the natural laws, what caused the physical constants. We don't even know if there was a cause, or a cause we can understand.

I agree that free will is a somewhat slippery term that can't be pinned down and is really a philosophical question. But it seems self evident to me that choice exists.
 
NiftyNiblick said:
It seems evident is a reasonable way to express it in my view.
Click to expand...

I think as a practical matter if it "feels" like choice and free will, that's the answer the class is going to go with.

No wife is ever going to accept a husband cheating because he had no choice and no control, and Timothy McVeigh is never going to be excused from accountability because he didn't have any choice about what he did.
 
Cypress said:
I think as a practical matter if it "feels" like choice and free will, that's the answer the class is going to go with.

No wife is ever going to accept a husband cheating because he had no choice and no control, and Timothy McVeigh is never going to be excused from accountability because he didn't have any choice about what he did.
Click to expand...

Those example are absolutely valid,

but at the same time,

just because we respond to things as if free will exists,

that in no way proves that we respond in that way of our own free will.

It could be programmed by evolution because societies that hold perceived transgressors responsible, whether they are or not,

succeed more than societies that do not.

None of it proves free will.

Whether you agree or not,

I hope that I've made my view understandable to you.
 
NiftyNiblick said:
As usual, British Petroleum, you're 100% wrong.

You have no fucking idea why you read and responded to my post.
If there's a reason that you did it, it's NOT free will.
It there's no reason that you did it, it's NOT natural, it's supernatural.

People with sufficient intelligence would understand this,
but here we're asking too much of you, obviously.

You would have to understand the difference between believing and knowing,
and you've NEVER understood that through the conduct of all of our correspondence.
Click to expand...
I can't speak for anyone else.

But I do know why I choose to read certain books, watch certain movies, and respond to certain posters rather than others. And I know with precision and clarity why I make those choices rather than others.
 
Doc Dutch said:
Aren't you? You keep bringing it up.

Nah. I consider gays to be helpful in eliminating the competition for women. :thup:

It's okay if you can't actually back up your claims with quotes, Perry. Sadly, I didn't expect you could. IMO, it's better having a person prove they are "off" than for me to simply claim they are so.
Click to expand...

I mentioned an artist who was gay.

You then simply assume anyone who discusses a gay artist must be gay.

Wow.

May I ask why gay people upset you so?
 
Cypress said:
I think you should talk to your shrink about this Perry PhD, aka Jank.
Click to expand...

Wow. You are a homophobe and now you think you should mock mental health care too.

You are a treat.

So how much hatred do you store in that little head of your? You know...the stuff yo constant LIE about not feeling?
 
CYPRESS LIES: he complains when people post in large font then he posts someone's stuff in large font that was NOT in large font.

SO DISHONEST. Truly the hallmark of a piece of shit.

Cypress said:
This explosion of rage
Click to expand...

When you attack someone mercilessly and ignore the points they make so you can attack them more what do you expect people will respond like?

Are you really stupid?

and resentment explains why you were incredulous that people like me can control our thoughts and feelings.
Click to expand...

You can't control your thoughts, you doof. I gave you a reference and I tried to discuss it. You are LYING to yourself if you think you control your thoughts.

This thread has basically been split between posters who believe they have no control over their thoughts and psychological framework
and those who do have access to self control and psychological discipline.
Click to expand...

You don't even see the subtle error you made in that sentence. Funny. I'd be glad to discuss it with you but you'd have to stop making it a personal attack all the time.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top