Eastern philosophy says the self is an illusion

ZenMode said:
Lol. It's definitely not schizophrenia. It's simply the way we experience our thoughts. I mean, we ARE talking to ourselves all the time, it not because of a mental disorder, but because there is no self that exists outside our stream of thought.
Click to expand...

You don't believe in the organic physical self?

The stream of thought aspect
is merely electrical activity
within the very real material self,
is it not?
 
BidenPresident said:
I have no idea what you're talking about.
Is your brain controlled by some alien in another universe?
Click to expand...

Your brain isn't controlled by anyone, including a self. Your stream of consciousness is being controlled by your brain. There is no "you" that is consciously creating thoughts, consciously creating feelings, etc.
 
ZenMode said:
Lol. It's definitely not schizophrenia. It's simply the way we experience our thoughts. I mean, we ARE talking to ourselves all the time, it not because of a mental disorder, but because there is no self that exists outside our stream of thought.
Click to expand...

When you believe other forces are controlling your mind, it looks like schizophrenia to me too.
 
NiftyNiblick said:
You don't believe in the organic physical self?

The stream of thought aspect
is merely electrical activity
within the very real material self,
is it not?
Click to expand...

I don't think anyone understands how electrical impulses in the brain lead to conciousness and abstract thought.

A neuron is just a cell. There is nothing inside the neuron we can point to that represents the seed of conciousness and thought. We can say that thought and conciousness is an emergent property of a network of neurons, but that's really just a fancy way of saying we don't have any tangible theory for it.
 
Doc Dutch said:
Yes. You believe you have no control over your own mind. You believe you are a meat robot controlled by unseen forces.
Click to expand...

I know I have no control over my thoughts. A fact that is easy to experience for those who are honestly curious and are open to new information.

If you aren't open to new information, as someone who's has used the term meat robot since the beginning of this multi-thread conversation would appear not to be, then you'll keep your mind closed....

something you can't control. :)
 
ZenMode said:
I know I have no control over my thoughts. A fact that is easy to experience for those who are honestly curious and are open to new information.

If you aren't open to new information, as someone who's has used the term meat robot since the beginning of this multi-thread conversation would appear not to be, then you'll keep your mind closed....

something you can't control. :)
Click to expand...

Do you have control of your actions, Mode, or are you compelled to act on your thoughts? Yes to the former means "Free Will", yes to the latter means schizophrenia. :D
 
Doc Dutch said:
Do you have control of your actions, Mode, or are you compelled to act on your thoughts? Yes to the former means "Free Will", yes to the latter means schizophrenia. :D
Click to expand...

I do not have control over my thoughts and I am compelled to act, or not act, based on my thoughts.

Every intentional action is based on thoughts. You don't reach for a glass of water without having a thought of being thirsty and some subsequent thoughts that ultimately determine if you do or don't reach for a water at that moment.

If I do something, it's because my thoughts compelled me to do something. If I don't, it's because my thoughts compelled me notto do something.

But, as I've been saying for days now, we don't control our thoughts. We don't pick our thoughts before they pick themselves. Our brain generates our thoughts through process that we are completely blind to and have no control over.
 
ZenMode said:
Your brain isn't controlled by anyone, including a self. Your stream of consciousness is being controlled by your brain. There is no "you" that is consciously creating thoughts, consciously creating feelings, etc.
Click to expand...

So your brain is controlling reality. What controls the brain?
 
ZenMode said:
I do not have control over my thoughts and I am compelled to act, or not act, based on my thoughts.

Every intentional action is based on thoughts. You don't reach for a glass of water without having a thought of being thirsty and some subsequent thoughts that ultimately determine if you do or don't reach for a water at that moment.

If I do something, it's because my thoughts compelled me to do something. If I don't, it's because my thoughts compelled me notto do something.

But, as I've been saying for days now, we don't control our thoughts. We don't pick our thoughts before they pick themselves. Our brain generates our thoughts through process that we are completely blind to and have no control over.
Click to expand...

Schizophrenia it is then. :thup:

I am in control of my actions regardless of my thoughts. Ergo, I have free will. You are not and, therefore, don't have free will. The cause is probably schizophrenia.

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/schizophrenia/symptoms-causes/syc-20354443
Symptoms
Schizophrenia involves a range of problems with thinking (cognition), behavior and emotions. Signs and symptoms may vary, but usually involve delusions, hallucinations or disorganized speech, and reflect an impaired ability to function. Symptoms may include:

  • Delusions. These are false beliefs that are not based in reality. For example, you think that you're being harmed or harassed; certain gestures or comments are directed at you; you have exceptional ability or fame; another person is in love with you; or a major catastrophe is about to occur. Delusions occur in most people with schizophrenia.
  • Hallucinations. These usually involve seeing or hearing things that don't exist. Yet for the person with schizophrenia, they have the full force and impact of a normal experience. Hallucinations can be in any of the senses, but hearing voices is the most common hallucination.
  • Disorganized thinking (speech). Disorganized thinking is inferred from disorganized speech. Effective communication can be impaired, and answers to questions may be partially or completely unrelated. Rarely, speech may include putting together meaningless words that can't be understood, sometimes known as word salad.
  • Extremely disorganized or abnormal motor behavior. This may show in a number of ways, from childlike silliness to unpredictable agitation. Behavior isn't focused on a goal, so it's hard to do tasks. Behavior can include resistance to instructions, inappropriate or bizarre posture, a complete lack of response, or useless and excessive movement.
  • Negative symptoms. This refers to reduced or lack of ability to function normally. For example, the person may neglect personal hygiene or appear to lack emotion (doesn't make eye contact, doesn't change facial expressions or speaks in a monotone). Also, the person may lose interest in everyday activities, socially withdraw or lack the ability to experience pleasure.

Symptoms can vary in type and severity over time, with periods of worsening and remission of symptoms. Some symptoms may always be present.

In men, schizophrenia symptoms typically start in the early to mid-20s. In women, symptoms typically begin in the late 20s. It's uncommon for children to be diagnosed with schizophrenia and rare for those older than age 45.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
ZenMode said:
I know I have no control over my thoughts. :)
Click to expand...

I do. At least to some extent.

It can be cultivated through self discipline and self reflection.

I have learned to control anger, resentment, thoughts of retribution, violence, hatred, and revenge, even against people who have done me wrong. I have learned to temper fleeting thoughts of self indulgence and greed.

That's actually another lesson of the sages of the Eastern and Western traditions, that we can purify our thoughts and cultivate right thinking through discipline, repetition, self control. It just requires will power and free choice.
 
I can control what I’m thinking about

Anyone who can’t has a mental condition that reguires treatment
 
Doc Dutch said:
Yes. You believe you have no control over your own mind. You believe you are a meat robot controlled by unseen forces.
Click to expand...

How do you control your mind? Do you have visibility to the neurological functions that generate thoughts? Are you able to stop thoughts from entering your consciousness? When I say "stop thoughts", I don't mean you have a thought to give someone the bird after they cut you off and then have a second thought and choose not to. I'm asking if you have the ability to stop any given thought from entering consciousness.
 
ZenMode said:
How do you control your mind? Do you have visibility to the neurological functions that generate thoughts? Are you able to stop thoughts from entering your consciousness? When I say "stop thoughts", I don't mean you have a thought to give someone the bird after they cut you off and then have a second thought and choose not to. I'm asking if you have the ability to stop any given thought from entering consciousness.
Click to expand...

What controls the brain?
 
ZenMode said:
How do you control your mind? Do you have visibility to the neurological functions that generate thoughts? Are you able to stop thoughts from entering your consciousness? When I say "stop thoughts", I don't mean you have a thought to give someone the bird after they cut you off and then have a second thought and choose not to. I'm asking if you have the ability to stop any given thought from entering consciousness.
Click to expand...

Ask your therapist if you decide to seek treatment, Mode.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top