Faith

Cypress said:
I do not think bible thumpers should berate atheists, and it is incomprehensible to me why some atheists get totally stressed out - even angry - on message boards about Christian spirituality.

Not everyone thinks all knowlege and truth are available to us through reason and direct observation.

Its fine if anyone wants to assume assume metaphysical questions are meaningless and the only ontological reality is accessed through direct observation. That kind of logical positivist approach is fine for those who are drawn to it

On the flip side, a lot of people feel there is a transcendent reality beyond the realm of experimentation and induction, and the metaphysical and existential questions of this life can be accessed through Christian theology, Confucian philosophy, Hindu Brahminism, native American religious traditions, Daoism, et al.

Outside of offensive proselytizing, I do not know why anyone gets stressed about any of it
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They "feel", and the rest of us are just supposed to accept their feelings as gospel truth.

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Cypress said:
Human cruelty knows no bounds, and crimes done in the name of religion deserve to be on any list of infamy.

But let's get the facts straight - the Spanish inquisition pales in comparison to the crimes, genocide, and ethic cleansing conducted under the purely secular agendas of nationalism, communism, fascism, totalitarianism, rightwing authoritarianism -- some of whom were proudly atheist. The contest isn't even remotely close.
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Communism is, itself, a religion.

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rjhenn said:
So the only answer would be a bunch of bull.
We didn't turn our backs on Him. He turned His back on us. He failed Adam and Eve.

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Sorry, but I never argue the faith I only inform. There's too much piss and vinegar over the subject on the sides of both the faithful and the faithful detractors. Truthfully it's a sign of weak faith to snip and argue it.
 
StoneByStone said:
Don't get me wrong, Atheists can do bad things too. But Atheism doesn't help people to do bad things. It's not a propaganda tool like Communism or religions.

Some of the top Nazis pretended to be Christian because they knew they could use Christianity to manipulate people. The Bolsheviks couldn't really do that with Atheism, because it's not a philosophy. They had to use Communism to manipulate people.
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Religion was invented in order to manipulate people.

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rjhenn said:
Why would an omnipotent and omniscient God care about any of that?

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Preservation of heart and soul in his cherished yet fallen kin is one reason. Besides that, try to think about things like a parent to a child. Guide but don't do it for them. Always be there for them to ask for help when needed.
 
rjhenn said:
So you accept that you're a loser.

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No, I accept I have no interest in intimate relationships. Do you accept you're being an adolescent bore who's swiping at me unprovoked?
 
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StoneByStone said:
But the reason they did that is because they saw religion as a threat to Communism.

Communism was the tool that they used to manipulate the masses, not Atheism. In fact, when WWII started, and the Bolsheviks needed to amp the Russians up for war, they eased up on the Eastern Orthodox Church so they can use it in pro-war propaganda.
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The reason for the inquisition is that the church saw heresey as a threat to church power and authority. Same thing^

That is the point. While you try to single out religion as this particularly unique threat to human intellectual freedom, the fact is the real problem is tyranny and totalitarianism, both theocratic and secular. Religion, nationalism, class struggle were only used as fig leafs by theocrats, fascists, communists, Nazis in their quests for control and power
 
StoneByStone said:
Sure, but they used religion to get people to follow them. The Bolsheviks used Communism.
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^ my point exactly.

There is nothing particularly unique about religion being an impediment to freedom of thought.

It all comes down to the ever present risk of tyranny and coercion. Religion, nationalism, racism, class struggle, have always been used as cover for any agenda which seeks control and authority. There is nothing particularly unique about the Catholic or Protestant churches in that regard.
 
Cypress said:
^ my point exactly.

There is nothing particularly unique about religion being an impediment to freedom of thought.

It all comes down to the ever present risk of tyranny and coercion. Religion, nationalism, racism, class struggle, have always been used as cover for any agenda which seeks control and authority. There is nothing particularly unique about the Catholic or Protestant churches in that regard.
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All ideologies have pimped religion for their own purposes including Democracy, but that is not a reflection on faith, rather man’s manipulation of faith for his own purposes
 
Cypress said:
^ my point exactly.

There is nothing particularly unique about religion being an impediment to freedom of thought.

It all comes down to the ever present risk of tyranny and coercion. Religion, nationalism, racism, class struggle, have always been used as cover for any agenda which seeks control and authority. There is nothing particularly unique about the Catholic or Protestant churches in that regard.
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There is something unique with religion in that it trains people to put feels over reals. Any ideology can be used by dictators to gain power, but some ideologies make it easier. Communism is a bad ideology, but it still relies on trying to make logical arguments. With religion, the people have already accepted that logic doesn't matter. And this is extremely common with Fascism. We're seeing it now with "alternative facts."
 
StoneByStone said:
There is something unique with religion in that it trains people to put feels over reals. Any ideology can be used by dictators to gain power, but some ideologies make it easier. Communism is a bad ideology, but it still relies on trying to make logical arguments. With religion, the people have already accepted that logic doesn't matter. And this is extremely common with Fascism. We're seeing it now with "alternative facts."
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Being an atheist,you assume organized religion is
Somehow related to Faith in a personal Epiphany with YHWH
 
PostmodernProphet said:
but wouldn't he also know that you didn't care enough about it to ask?......if you don't care enough to want it you probably didn't need it as much as you thought you did.......
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Right, because breakfast isn't necessary unless you beg for it. A parent, as this god is supposed to be, doesn't need you to beg or worship them, unless they are seriously psychotic.


first of all, why presume he doesn't care as much for Dwapslab as he does Earth?.......if he cared enough to create them, it might follow that he cares enough to sustain them......and, I think it is presumptuous to take it as a given that all things would be the same to an entity of an all knowing power......he may well know, (being all knowing) that it isn't the same if we live or if we die......that it isn't the same if we ask or don't ask while it is us, who are not all knowing, that don't know the difference.......
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Because that is not what the book says, it says that humans were "created in his image" and therefore are more important.
 
PostmodernProphet said:
to be fair, there is actually no word Yahweh in any language......in Hebrew there is only YHWH.......and the earliest forms of written Hebrew had no vowels at all.......they came later as dots and marks beneath the consonants....
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Which was why I pointed out that in English you can actually write the vowels.
 
Dark Soul said:
You're trying to equate God with human qualities. In comparison to Him, we humans are mere insects. Would you expect an insect to have the qualities of a human?
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I expect it because the god says that he has those qualities. You either take the god at their word and believe or you think humans are idiots trying to explain the world around them and ignore it, but this "boy this god is awesome so we should just let them be psychotic and demand worship without question" stuff is inane. This god tells these folks they are important, what they think matters, and that they have the same feelings as the god...
 
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