Film Review: SICKO!

"No, I do not. Because far too many of them have the same ignorant attitude that you do. Oh, it's toooooooo hard... boo hoo... if you are so completely pathetic that no one cares about a thing you say, then yes, you are not likely to influence anyone into working out or eating better. In that case, just make sure YOU are in shape. THAT you can control. If you are not, then you are part of the problem"

Here's where you fall apart, completely. I'm actually in great shape; I'm a vegetarian, exercise at least an hour a day, belong to a gym, get regular checkups, yada yada yada.

According to your 'plan', everything will get better if I can just get all of my friends & family to do exactly as I do.

Idiot. That's one of the dumbest sentiments I've seen on this board, and that includes all of topspin's posts. Diet, staying healthy, exercise - these concepts are in the news every day, and everyone knows the risks at this point, but we still get more obese & out of shape as a nation every year.

Your "plan" is completely unrealistic - beyond utopian, even in the long run. And it's not because of "people like me." It's reality. I'm sorry that you can't comprehend it.
 
"Nah, not about that. You can ask your friends to go the gym with you, but taking care of yourself is a commitment, and that's not a load of shit. You're not going to change one person who doesn't want to change. You can't get someone to stop drinking either. Those are just facts of life. "

Yes Darla, I understand it is a personal committment.... and yes, there will be those that won't do it no matter what. But there are also those people who simply don't do it, because they haven't in a while and the first few weeks typically suck... those people you can help....

"And your health care plan seems to consist of "don't get sick". That's actually the bullshit here."

Go back and read my original post. I said that was a FIRST step. I said we also have to break down the costs and find out WHY it is costing so much.

One reason costs are high is that we are an obese society. So we end up needing more care, which means the insurance companies charge us more because they know we are going to cost them more. It is a circular problem.

Another reason is that malpractice insurance is insanely high. My uncle pays over $200k per year. $200,000... yet he has never had a claim against him. Why is that insurance so high? Because jury awards are getting astronomical and thus the insurance companies charge everyone more to cover those awards.

Now these are just SOME of the things we can do.

"And yes, I blame the insurance companies in particular. For good reason."

So what is your solution to lowering costs? Having the government pay them for you so that you don't have to see them anymore? Great plan.
 
"Yes Darla, I understand it is a personal committment.... and yes, there will be those that won't do it no matter what. But there are also those people who simply don't do it, because they haven't in a while and the first few weeks typically suck... those people you can help.... "

Ah - the "personal trainer" approach. Let's see; the only way this would work is by some sort of mass, group action across the nation. How do you envision such a scenario playing out? Are you expecting spontaneous group action that #'s in the millions, or some sort of incentive to get the smaller % of those who are "in shape" to whip the lazy ones into the kind of shape they're in...getting them to the gym, getting them through the 1st few weeks & committing to a long-term plan, all while advising them on nutrition & proper diet?

Could you be a little more detailed in the steps for this moving forward?
 
SF, the CBO has said that medical malpractice costs account for less than one percent of health care costs. That number has been reflected in many other studies. 1 percent SF. Please, you guys gotta got off the malpractice mantra, it is not supported by facts, period.

We pay from 60 to 230 percent more for the same drugs as other countries do. In effect, we are subsidizing the low cost of drugs for the rest of the Westernized world. The pharma companies own our political system. If we got the politicians out of their pockets, then we could pay a lot less for drugs, and maybe other Westernized nations would have to pay a little more for theirs, and we could stop subsidizing them.

But you guys would rather talk about 1 percent, than the real problem, not because the 1% would ever make any difference, but because it aligns with your agenda.
 
Darla said:
Is that the republican plan for healthcare? "Get off your ass"? I like it. Let's use that as your healthcare platform in 2008, against the Dems platform for healthcare, and see which one sells better.

LOL. I don't know why I bother arguing. I should have just said that. That's great. Ok, sure, roll with it. Let's see what happens.
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Yeah it is all covered by the Republicans personal responsibility :)
 
"Here's where you fall apart, completely. I'm actually in great shape; I'm a vegetarian, exercise at least an hour a day, belong to a gym, get regular checkups, yada yada yada."

Ok genius... I said IF you are not in shape, then you are part of the problem. Now tell me... how often do you get sick to the point where you go see your doctor? How often do you go for anything other than a physical?

"According to your 'plan', everything will get better if I can just get all of my friends & family to do exactly as I do."

Dumbass...do you read? If so, can you comprehend what you read? I said it was a FIRST step. Do try to pay attention. But to answer your comment.... YES... if people are healthier... they will need LESS healthcare services.

"Idiot. That's one of the dumbest sentiments I've seen on this board, and that includes all of topspin's posts."

No... the dumbest sentiment is the "oh, I give up, there is no way that trying to get others to exercise or eat better can work..... let's just blame the insurance companies or cry about no national healthcare"

You are obviously a very pathetic individual to have such a low opinion of your abilities to influence those around you. Since you have a low ability to comprehend what you read, I will say this again.... I am not suggesting that you have the ability to change the country all by yourself.

"Diet, staying healthy, exercise - these concepts are in the news every day, and everyone knows the risks at this point, but we still get more obese & out of shape as a nation every year."

Right... because too many people in this country are lazy and are not motivated to get healthy because they know there are a lot of morons like you that will be more than happy to pay for their healthcare for them.

"Your "plan" is completely unrealistic - beyond utopian, even in the long run. And it's not because of "people like me." It's reality. I'm sorry that you can't comprehend it.[/QUOTE]"

Again dumbass.... since you are too ignorant to comprehend what has been written... it is not a solution by itself. Hence the words FIRST STEP. It is not utopian, it is a mindset that works elsewhere. It can work here as well, but not as long as the majority of people share your attitude that crying about the problem and blaming others for the problem is the way to go.
 
""SF, the CBO has said that medical malpractice costs account for less than one percent of health care costs. That number has been reflected in many other studies. 1 percent SF. Please, you guys gotta got off the malpractice mantra, it is not supported by facts, period."

Actually, there number is 2%... and as I have mentioned before, that 2% is calculated when they include the costs of Social security as a part of healthcare costs. It also includes the costs of medicare and medicaid. It does not factor in the costs that individuals pay through private insurance.

Also... please tell me where the costs are coming into play.... what makes a doctors visit so expensive?
 
I asked you if you think we could mobilize enough people to make any kind of difference. Your response, and the most realistic thing you have said:

"No, I do not. Because far too many of them have the same ignorant attitude that you do. "

Do you still agree with your assessment, or do you expect something magical to happen in America, where literally millions of people take it upon themselves to essentially act as personal trainers & motivators for the out-of-shape people around them?

What an utterly foolish discussion to have about healthcare in America....
 
Superfreak said:
""SF, the CBO has said that medical malpractice costs account for less than one percent of health care costs. That number has been reflected in many other studies. 1 percent SF. Please, you guys gotta got off the malpractice mantra, it is not supported by facts, period."

Actually, there number is 2%... and as I have mentioned before, that 2% is calculated when they include the costs of Social security as a part of healthcare costs. It also includes the costs of medicare and medicaid. It does not factor in the costs that individuals pay through private insurance.

Also... please tell me where the costs are coming into play.... what makes a doctors visit so expensive?
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Really, I've only ever seen 1% and less than 1%. Anyway, malpractice isn't the problem.

Why did you ignore what I wrote about drug prices, and move onto doctors? I gave you an example of a 60 to 230% problem, and you just gloss over it, but are still talking about malpractice costs? Why?

because maybe it is the pharma companies that are part of the problem, but you don't want to go there? Maybe blaming someone for something that is actually their fault, isn't so "whiny"?
 
Darla said:
SF, the CBO has said that medical malpractice costs account for less than one percent of health care costs. That number has been reflected in many other studies. 1 percent SF. Please, you guys gotta got off the malpractice mantra, it is not supported by facts, period.

We pay from 60 to 230 percent more for the same drugs as other countries do. In effect, we are subsidizing the low cost of drugs for the rest of the Westernized world. The pharma companies own our political system. If we got the politicians out of their pockets, then we could pay a lot less for drugs, and maybe other Westernized nations would have to pay a little more for theirs, and we could stop subsidizing them.

But you guys would rather talk about 1 percent, than the real problem, not because the 1% would ever make any difference, but because it aligns with your agenda.
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However, just granting government subsidy to the companies doesn't fix this. Which has been my point. Sweeping it under the rug doesn't make the dirt go away.

First fix the cost basis before picking up the tab.

And I'm with LadyT, it doesn't have to be cetralized in the Federal Government.
 
Superfreak,

Your GOP healthcare plan of harassing your relatives to get off their asses, is completely inadequate.

While it never hurts to harass someone to go excercise, that is not a solution. People need information and tools with respect to their preventative healthcare....not just harrassment,

Who's better at providing information and tools at improving one's preventative healthcare?.... Your family physician? Or, Aunt Bertha?

I don't know if you bother going to a family doctor, but these people are dedictated not just to clinical treatment, but to helping with preventative healthcare- information, tools, and harassment. No one is better at harrassment, than a family doctor worth his or her salt.

Why do you think most industrialized nations are healthier than us? You guessed right - they have access to family doctors and preventative healthcare information and tools.
 
Damocles said:
However, just granting government subsidy to the companies doesn't fix this. Which has been my point. Sweeping it under the rug doesn't make the dirt go away.

First fix the cost basis before picking up the tab.

And I'm with LadyT, it doesn't have to be cetralized in the Federal Government.
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Wow, I am not talking about FURTHER Subsidizing pharma companies. Obviously, our Congress passing a pill bill that states the government cannot negotiate for prices, needs to be ripped up. And negotiating for prices would be job one in any new health care system. The more you buy, the bigger discount you get. That's basic business.
 
"We pay from 60 to 230 percent more for the same drugs as other countries do. In effect, we are subsidizing the low cost of drugs for the rest of the Westernized world. The pharma companies own our political system. If we got the politicians out of their pockets, then we could pay a lot less for drugs, and maybe other Westernized nations would have to pay a little more for theirs, and we could stop subsidizing them. "

yes, the FDA and subsidizing other countries certainly are a part of the higher drug costs here. No question. I have NO problem with reducing lobbying... but as long as we call money "free speech" this will not change.
 
but as long as we call money "free speech" this will not change.
//

You got that right!

imho that is one of the biggest single problems in our gummit.
It is the root of many other problems.
 
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Now Darla, what are the other costs involved with our higher drug prices....

We also pay the costs for all the drugs that are taken through trials that do not work. Again, this is essentially subsidizing other countries, because we do pay the bulk of these costs and the pharmas typically do not pass them along to other countries. As the wealthiest nation, this should be the way it is done. Because the "helping those less fortunate" attitude should not stop at some arbitrary border.

Another cost pharmas pass along through drug costs? Vioxx ring any bells?

That said, I do want to commend you, because breaking down the costs and examining them is the only way we are going to find ways to lower them.
 
Darla said:
Wow, I am not talking about FURTHER Subsidizing pharma companies. Obviously, our Congress passing a pill bill that states the government cannot negotiate for prices, needs to be ripped up. And negotiating for prices would be job one in any new health care system. The more you buy, the bigger discount you get. That's basic business.
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I have little trust that the fix will work so perfectly that we should just make it so we can negotiate and whammo let's pick up the tab. Prove it works before forcing me to pick up other's tab (we do anyway). But I have almost no faith in the government concerning cost control.
 
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