Gay Adoption banned in Arkansas - Kids get ripped from foster homes

Southern Man said:
I would argue that there is evidence, and it is suppressed, just like the scientific arguments to keep homosexuality listed as a psych disease was suppressed at the APA.
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Oh, so its a conspiracy now? Thats another great way to argue without facts, isn't it?


And considering that you are quoting a religious organization (Traditional Values Coalition) that has a vested interest in making the case that the APA was pressured, I don't see it as a valid source.

It would be like asking the Ccouncil on American Islamic Relations to explain radical muslim terrorism and expecting to get the whole truth.



The APA has presented plenty of research to support its findings. The AMA has agreed with it.

Claiming that its a huge conspiracy is just laughable.
 
Southern Man said:
I would argue that there is evidence, and it is suppressed, just like the scientific arguments to keep homosexuality listed as a psych disease was suppressed at the APA.
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As a neuroscientist, I can attest that there are measurable differences in the brains of homosexuals that are congenital, not developmental, and the origins of those differences are beginning to be identified.

Homosexuality has been around as long as people have. Indeed, it is not unusual at all to see homosexual behavior in the rest of the animal world as well. This is not a "choice"; it seems that the only reasons for suppression or concealment of the lifestyle are societal and political. The sexual orientation is biological.
 
"It would promote to those children that the homosexual life style is a normal life style, thus contributing significantly to the growth of the movement that thinks that way already. Listen, I try to be respectful of other people's opinions but I cannot go against my core beliefs. As long as there is an opportunity for me to vote on an issue like this you can count on my voting against anything that would legitimize homosexual relationships in the eyes of children. If I did otherwise I would be lending my support to something that I believe is wrong."


Leaningright, I respect your beliefs. But, other than religious beliefs, what would be the harm in our entire society thinking that homosexuality AND heterosexuality are both normal?

I understand the religious point of view. That same condemnation goes for people who have sex outside of marriage. But we don't exclude them from raising children for that reason.

And since the US Constitution doesn't allow the selection of a religion, and some religions have no problem with homosexuality, what would be the worst that would happen if homosexuality were accepted just like heterosexuality?
 
Thorn said:
As a neuroscientist, I can attest that there are measurable differences in the brains of homosexuals that are congenital, not developmental, and the origins of those differences are beginning to be identified.

Homosexuality has been around as long as people have. Indeed, it is not unusual at all to see homosexual behavior in the rest of the animal world as well. This is not a "choice"; it seems that the only reasons for suppression or concealment of the lifestyle are societal and political. The sexual orientation is biological.
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Thorn, are you sure you aren't just cowing to the pressures from gay rights groups?
 
Solitary said:
LMAO You want to boil something as complex as human sexuality and interpersonal relationships down to a few words?

Ok, how about these....

My wife was bisexual but leaned towards men, until she remembered the litany of horrors done to her.
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So you're saying that she'd invite her Gf over while you were married? Or are you not being honest in order to bolster your position?
 
Southern Man said:
So you're saying that she'd invite her Gf over while you were married? Or are you not being honest in order to bolster your position?
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No, I am not saying she would invite her GF over while we were married.

But I am saying that we discussed both our sexuality and our sexual fantasies quite a bit during 15 years together.
 
Solitary said:
Oh, so its a conspiracy now? Thats another great way to argue without facts, isn't it?


And considering that you are quoting a religious organization (Traditional Values Coalition) that has a vested interest in making the case that the APA was pressured, I don't see it as a valid source.

It would be like asking the Ccouncil on American Islamic Relations to explain radical muslim terrorism and expecting to get the whole truth.



The APA has presented plenty of research to support its findings. The AMA has agreed with it.

Claiming that its a huge conspiracy is just laughable.
Click to expand...

Actually the source is Dr. Ronald Bayer, a pro-homosexual psychiatrist, who described what actually occurred in his book, Homosexuality and American Psychiatry: The Politics of Diagnosis. But go ahead an attack the messenger if that's all you've got.
 
Thorn said:
As a neuroscientist, I can attest that there are measurable differences in the brains of homosexuals that are congenital, not developmental, and the origins of those differences are beginning to be identified.

Homosexuality has been around as long as people have. Indeed, it is not unusual at all to see homosexual behavior in the rest of the animal world as well. This is not a "choice"; it seems that the only reasons for suppression or concealment of the lifestyle are societal and political. The sexual orientation is biological.
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Since gays can't reproduce if they stick to their preference behavior then how do these brain abnormalities get passed on?
 
Solitary said:
"It would promote to those children that the homosexual life style is a normal life style, thus contributing significantly to the growth of the movement that thinks that way already. Listen, I try to be respectful of other people's opinions but I cannot go against my core beliefs. As long as there is an opportunity for me to vote on an issue like this you can count on my voting against anything that would legitimize homosexual relationships in the eyes of children. If I did otherwise I would be lending my support to something that I believe is wrong."


Leaningright, I respect your beliefs. But, other than religious beliefs, what would be the harm in our entire society thinking that homosexuality AND heterosexuality are both normal?

I understand the religious point of view. That same condemnation goes for people who have sex outside of marriage. But we don't exclude them from raising children for that reason.

And since the US Constitution doesn't allow the selection of a religion, and some religions have no problem with homosexuality, what would be the worst that would happen if homosexuality were accepted just like heterosexuality?
Click to expand...

That is exactly my point here Sol. You take religion (the Bible, the Koran, etc.) out of the picture and there is nothing that I can think of that one would consider harmful. Many of us simply can't take it out of the picture though.
 
Solitary said:
"It would promote to those children that the homosexual life style is a normal life style, thus contributing significantly to the growth of the movement that thinks that way already. Listen, I try to be respectful of other people's opinions but I cannot go against my core beliefs. As long as there is an opportunity for me to vote on an issue like this you can count on my voting against anything that would legitimize homosexual relationships in the eyes of children. If I did otherwise I would be lending my support to something that I believe is wrong."


Leaningright, I respect your beliefs. But, other than religious beliefs, what would be the harm in our entire society thinking that homosexuality AND heterosexuality are both normal?

I understand the religious point of view. That same condemnation goes for people who have sex outside of marriage. But we don't exclude them from raising children for that reason.

And since the US Constitution doesn't allow the selection of a religion, and some religions have no problem with homosexuality, what would be the worst that would happen if homosexuality were accepted just like heterosexuality?
Click to expand...

First of all, normal is what most people do. Statistically that means within the fat part of the bell curve. I've heard it defined as two standard deviations outside the median. The exact percentage is open for argument, but it is surely outside the 90th or 95th percentile, with 5 to 10% being abnormal. Homosexuality falls outside of even the most extreme definition of normal at 1 or 2% of the population.
 
Southern Man said:
Actually the source is Dr. Ronald Bayer, a pro-homosexual psychiatrist, who described what actually occurred in his book, Homosexuality and American Psychiatry: The Politics of Diagnosis. But go ahead an attack the messenger if that's all you've got.
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Its not all I have. I am just laughing at using an organization that proclaims itself as "The Traditional Values Coalition is an inter-denominational public policy organization speaking on behalf of over 43,000 churches." as a credible source.

I also see a neuroscientist saying she has seen differences in the brains of homosexuals, which would lend credibility to the APA stand.
 
Southern Man said:
Since gays can't reproduce if they stick to their preference behavior then how do these brain abnormalities get passed on?
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Congenital means "in utero", or while the mother is pregnant; genetic means inherited.

I didn't call them abnormalities, in fact I was quite careful about that. The sexual orientation of gays is perfectly normal for them, and doesn't vary widely as an accidental trauma would do. There are far too many consistencies to consider this an abnormality.
 
leaningright said:
That is exactly my point here Sol. You take religion (the Bible, the Koran, etc.) out of the picture and there is nothing that I can think of that one would consider harmful. Many of us simply can't take it out of the picture though.
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And I can respect that point of view. But if we make the laws respective of what is outside of religious views, and let religions teach their messages, would you not be able to hold your same beliefs and views?
 
Southern Man said:
First of all, normal is what most people do. Statistically that means within the fat part of the bell curve. I've heard it defined as two standard deviations outside the median. The exact percentage is open for argument, but it is surely outside the 90th or 95th percentile, with 5 to 10% being abnormal. Homosexuality falls outside of even the most extreme definition of normal at 1 or 2% of the population.
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Or it is much more common than is believed and the rest avoid expressing it for fear of condemnation, retribution, or outright hostility.

Even my basic college level courses have told me that there are very few hard and fast rules in human sexuality. That very few people are on the extreme ends between heterosexuality and homosexuality. That most are in between. How far from the center is often what determines out sexuality.
 
Thorn said:
Congenital means "in utero", or while the mother is pregnant; genetic means inherited.

I didn't call them abnormalities, in fact I was quite careful about that. The sexual orientation of gays is perfectly normal for them, and doesn't vary widely as an accidental trauma would do. There are far too many consistencies to consider this an abnormality.
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Just so we are clear, you are saying that the condition changes the brain development of a fetus? What would cause that?
 
I have asked this question over and over and NO ONE that believes that sexuality is a choice has ever been able to tell me abou the day they chose to be heterosexual. So tell me SM, did you weigh the pros and cons of felatio with another man, did you wonder what his balls would feel like on the bridge of your nose? Did you wonder if you would actually like receiving anal sex or just giving? DId you then compare that to cunnilingus and and vaginal sex and then make a choice? I just wonder, because I remember at 4 seeing a little girl on an airplane to LA and I was done man. She was all that an a box of crackerjacks. Matter of fact she was the prize inside. I still remember what she looks like 38 years later. She had the greenest eyes ever. I have never once thought I would rather have sex with a man than with a woman. It is not something I could choose. As for Bi-sexuality, it is as hardwired as the other two choices.
 
Solitary said:
Or it is much more common than is believed and the rest avoid expressing it for fear of condemnation, retribution, or outright hostility.

Even my basic college level courses have told me that there are very few hard and fast rules in human sexuality. That very few people are on the extreme ends between heterosexuality and homosexuality. That most are in between. How far from the center is often what determines out sexuality.
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The latest scientific research indicates the prevalence at 1%. Even if the data is off by a factor of 2- unheard of in the science of polling- then it would be 2%.
 
Socrtease said:
I have asked this question over and over and NO ONE that believes that sexuality is a choice has ever been able to tell me abou the day they chose to be heterosexual. So tell me SM, did you weigh the pros and cons of felatio with another man, did you wonder what his balls would feel like on the bridge of your nose? Did you wonder if you would actually like receiving anal sex or just giving? DId you then compare that to cunnilingus and and vaginal sex and then make a choice? I just wonder, because I remember at 4 seeing a little girl on an airplane to LA and I was done man. She was all that an a box of crackerjacks. Matter of fact she was the prize inside. I still remember what she looks like 38 years later. She had the greenest eyes ever. I have never once thought I would rather have sex with a man than with a woman. It is not something I could choose. As for Bi-sexuality, it is as hardwired as the other two choices.
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Oh here we go with the disgusting innuendos. If you wish to insult me then be a man about it, get it over with so that I may dismiss you from the debate.
 
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