Gender

[Yakuda]

The logical fallacy occurs when a person changes the meaning in the middle of a discussion on a topic to a meaning other than the meaning in the original topic.
The term gender in gender identity is not synonymous with sex.

So let me see if I understand you currently, the meaning of the word "gender" in gender identity is different than the meaning of the word "gender" related to sex. Correct or incorrect?

 

[gfm7175]

Your questions, IBDaMann?

Resorting to sock accusations as a means of distraction/evasion because you've been outwitted?

Q: Where do "dictionary definitions" come from?

PRS: "Spell sex. Now spell gender.
Are they spelled the same? If not, then they are not the same thing."

GFM: "Spell huge. Now spell gigantic.
Are they spelled the same? If not, then they are not the same thing.

Are you really this much of a moron? (rhetorical question)"

 

[Poor Richard Saunders]

Interesting... I really thought that you'd take the "you just don't understand" angle, blaming me for your poor reasoning... Instead, you're opting to be even MORE ridiculous by trying to counter-claim that the words 'huge' and 'gigantic' mean entirely different things.

Even by YOUR OWN stance of Merriam Webster being The Dictionary, the source of word definitions, your claim here is incorrect. From your own chosen source (Merriam Webster):

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/huge

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/gigantic

Your own chosen source, The Dictionary, explains how those words are synonyms re: describing the "exceedingly large" size of something, exactly as I previously told you...

Are you now going to deny the veracity of your own chosen source in an attempt to remain a contrarian instead of simply admitting that you were in error?

Ignoring your error is not going to work either, as I will keep bringing it up over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again... Of course, that could be avoided by a simple "whoops, you were right gfm7175"... but that would be too easy, eh?

I don't recall saying that because something is not identical means they are entirely different things but thanks for playing "Let's all watch gfm7175 build a strawman."
You will notice that huge and gigantic have different definitions even though they might be considered similar and synonymous in some cases.

Synonyms often rely on a specific definition to be synonymous with a different word while other meanings of the word are not synonymous.

But then you seem to have missed quite a bit in the dictionary you referenced.

Choose the Right Synonym for gigantic

enormous, immense, huge, vast, gigantic, colossal, mammoth mean exceedingly large.

enormous and immense both suggest an exceeding of all ordinary bounds in size or amount or degree, but enormous often adds an implication of abnormality or monstrousness.
an enormous expense
an immense shopping mall

huge commonly suggests an immensity of bulk or amount.
incurred a huge debt

vast usually suggests immensity of extent.
the vast Russian steppes

gigantic stresses the contrast with the size of others of the same kind.
a gigantic sports stadium

colossal applies especially to a human creation of stupendous or incredible dimensions.

 

[gfm7175]

Limiting words to your definition and not using the same definition as others are using is a logical fallacy. Gender is not the same as sex when discussing gender identity.

Limiting words to the definition contained on https://www.merriam-webster.com/ and not using the same definition as others are using is a logical fallacy.

Gender is most definitely the same as sex when discussing the biological differences between individuals of a particular sexual species.

There are already terms in existence for describing a man who "identifies as a woman". One such term is 'mentally ill'.

 

[Poor Richard Saunders]

So let me see if I understand you currently, the meaning of the word "gender" in gender identity is different than the meaning of the word "gender" related to sex. Correct or incorrect?

Are gender and sex the same? Usage Guide

The words sex and gender have a long and intertwined history. In the 15th century gender expanded from its use as a term for a grammatical subclass to join sex in referring to either of the two primary biological forms of a species, a meaning sex has had since the 14th century; phrases like "the male sex" and "the female gender" are both grounded in uses established for more than five centuries. In the 20th century sex and gender each acquired new uses. Sex developed its "sexual intercourse" meaning in the early part of the century (now its more common meaning), and a few decades later gender gained a meaning referring to the behavioral, cultural, or psychological traits typically associated with one sex, as in "gender roles." Later in the century, gender also came to have application in two closely related compound terms: gender identity refers to a person's internal sense of being male, female, some combination of male and female, or neither male nor female; gender expression refers to the physical and behavioral manifestations of one's gender identity. By the end of the century gender by itself was being used as a synonym of gender identity.

If gender refers to behavioral, cultural and psychological traits then it isn't related to the sex organs seen at birth and recorded on a birth certificate. The birth certificate doesn't reflect behavioral, cultural and psychological traits when it refers to sex.

 

[Poor Richard Saunders]

Limiting words to the definition contained on https://www.merriam-webster.com/ and not using the same definition as others are using is a logical fallacy.

Congratulations, you have discovered the flaw in your argument.

 

[Poor Richard Saunders]

Resorting to sock accusations as a means of distraction/evasion because you've been outwitted?

Q: Where do "dictionary definitions" come from?

PRS: "Spell sex. Now spell gender.
Are they spelled the same? If not, then they are not the same thing."

GFM: "Spell huge. Now spell gigantic.
Are they spelled the same? If not, then they are not the same thing.

Are you really this much of a moron? (rhetorical question)"

There is no space on a birth certificate in the US to record "gender."
Doctors record the "sex."

Same thing.

Perhaps you are confused as to the meaning of "synonymous" vs "same."

 

[gfm7175]

The problem is that the word gender had a meaning when discussing gender identity and it's meaning was known before the attempt to restrict it to a different meaning.

You are absolutely correct. Gender had (and still has) a specific meaning, and that meaning is re: the biological differences between individuals of a sexual species.

You are also correct that there is now an attempt to restrict the word 'gender' to a different meaning. That attempt is being made by people such as yourself who wish to hijack the word in order to normalize, and even promote, the existence of mental illness. It is not healthy to believe that you are a woman when you are actually a man (or vice versa).

 

[Yakuda]

If gender refers to behavioral, cultural and psychological traits then it isn't related to the sex organs seen at birth and recorded on a birth certificate. The birth certificate doesn't reflect behavioral, cultural and psychological traits when it refers to sex.

That's a huge and gigantic IF and IF we limit words to your definition, which you yourself claim is a logical fallacy.

What traits are reflected in lopping off healthy part parts and attaching different unworking ones?

 

[Yakuda]

You are absolutely correct. Gender had (and still has) a specific meaning when discussing gender identity, and that meaning is re: the biological differences between individuals of a sexual species.

You are also correct that there is now an attempt to restrict the word 'gender' to a different meaning. That attempt is being made by people such as yourself who wish to hijack the word in order to normalize, and even promote, the existence of mental illness. It is not healthy to believe that you are a woman when you are actually a man (or vice versa).

You mean he is limiting words to his definition which he claims is a logical fallacy?

 

[Poor Richard Saunders]

You are absolutely correct. Gender had (and still has) a specific meaning when discussing gender identity, and that meaning is re: the biological differences between individuals of a sexual species.

You are also correct that there is now an attempt to restrict the word 'gender' to a different meaning. That attempt is being made by people such as yourself who wish to hijack the word in order to normalize, and even promote, the existence of mental illness. It is not healthy to believe that you are a woman when you are actually a man (or vice versa).

So clearly, the only discussion we are having is which definition of gender applies. You seem to think we should ignore the normal accepted definition in the modern world and instead rely on your anachronistic definition. I disagree.

 

[Poor Richard Saunders]

That's a huge and gigantic IF and IF we limit words to your definition, which you yourself claim is a logical fallacy.

What traits are reflected in lopping off healthy part parts and attaching different unworking ones?

So we are simply arguing which definition is the correct one. I said that days ago. You are attempting to use one that is not the current accepted definition in the medical field. When discussing medical procedures shouldn't we be using their definition?

 

[Poor Richard Saunders]

You mean he is limiting words to his definition which he claims is a logical fallacy?

The logical fallacy only occurs when one person tries to change from the accepted definition at the beginning of the debate.

This is the OP.

Sex is usually categorized as female or male but there is variation in the biological attributes that comprise sex and how those attributes are expressed. Gender refers to the socially constructed roles, behaviours, expressions and identities of girls, women, boys, men, and gender diverse people.May 8, 2023


https://cihr-irsc.gc.ca › ...

Changing from that definition to try to argue anything other than the definition is the logical fallacy. Supporting that definition can not be an equivocation fallacy.

 

[Yakuda]

The logical fallacy only occurs when one person tries to change from the accepted definition at the beginning of the debate.

This is the OP.


Changing from that definition to try to argue anything other than the definition is the logical fallacy. Supporting that definition can not be an equivocation fallacy.

I've been clear all along sex is gender gender is sex. You are changing the definition and limiting words to your definition is a logical fallacy. That's what YOU said.

 

[gfm7175]

I don't recall saying that because something is not identical means they are entirely different things but thanks for playing "Let's all watch gfm7175 build a strawman."
You will notice that huge and gigantic have different definitions even though they might be considered similar and synonymous in some cases.

Synonyms often rely on a specific definition to be synonymous with a different word while other meanings of the word are not synonymous.

But then you seem to have missed quite a bit in the dictionary you referenced.

I'd just like to take a moment to bring to the forum's attention my post #492 in which I predicted the following:

"However, since he is Stupid Richard Saunders, he will instead most likely attempt to blame ME for his poor reasoning, thus never learning from his mistakes... He'll maybe mindlessly throw around the word 'strawman' for good measure...

Let's see how this one plays out."

Stupid Richard Saunders initially resisted responding in this way, instead opting for doubling down on stupid by asserting that the words 'huge' and 'gigantic' mean different things (are not synonymous). After I explained to him how even his own source opposes his position (of which he has now quoted in this response, completely oblivious to how it is only supporting my position), he has now resorted to the "build a strawman" response that I predicted he'd resort to back in post #492.

Sometimes it's just too easy to the point where it gets boring..........

 

[gfm7175]

Congratulations, you have discovered the flaw in your argument.

Congratulations, you have only further fulfilled my prediction that I made about you in my post #492.

 

[Poor Richard Saunders]

I've been clear all along sex is gender gender is sex. You are changing the definition and limiting words to your definition is a logical fallacy. That's what You said.

Then the only thing that is clear is that you are guilty of the equivocation fallacy since you have changed the definition from the one that was introduced at the start.

 

[Yakuda]

So we are simply arguing which definition is the correct one. I said that days ago. You are attempting to use one that is not the current accepted definition in the medical field. When discussing medical procedures shouldn't we be using their definition?

No I don't necessarily think we should especially if they have changed a definition simply for political or ideological reasons alone. What's the medical evidence for someone being "trans fluid"?

 

[Yakuda]

Then the only thing that is clear is that you are guilty of the equivocation fallacy since you have changed the definition from the one that was introduced at the start.

I haven't changed a thing. Don't get pissy with me because you shot yourself in the foot.

 

[Poor Richard Saunders]

I'd just like to take a moment to bring to the forum's attention my post #492 in which I predicted the following:


Stupid Richard Saunders initially resisted responding in this way, instead opting for doubling down on stupid by asserting that the words 'huge' and 'gigantic' mean different things (are not synonymous). After I explained to him how even his own source opposes his position (of which he has now quoted in this response, completely oblivious to how it is only supporting my position), he has now resorted to the "build a strawman" response that I predicted he'd resort to back in post #492.

Sometimes it's just too easy to the point where it gets boring..........

I didn't mindlessly throw around the word. I pointed to a specific instance of you misrepresenting my argument.
Let's look at the evidence of you introducing a straw man.

Instead, you're opting to be even MORE ridiculous by trying to counter-claim that the words 'huge' and 'gigantic' mean entirely different things.

IF you want to argue that your statement isn't a straw man then by all means link to where I made the claim or said anything resembling what you are calling ridiculous and accusing me of saying.