Honestly,.......Q has been a massive success.

Dutch Uncle said:
Falsification of official documents is a crime. Whether it warrants a prison sentence depends upon severity and jurisdiction.
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Yeah,...no big deal right? I mean,....it was only part of the justification used to launch the Mueller investigation which not only cost us millions of dollars for a fucking dog and pony show,....but also had a hand in tearing the country apart instead of coming together. Thats all. To say nothing of ruining Mr Page's life and costing him tons of money to defend the nonsense. Thats all... no big deal. :rolleyes:
 
LV426 said:
This is woefully naive.

Good never really triumphs over evil because of people like you who think that good and evil are the same thing.

Yes, we actually do because all that shit happened decades ago and we're talking about our current state, which is exclusively right-wing Conservatives committing acts of political terror, sanctioned by their own party.

BTW - the evil of Waco wasn't the ATF, it was Koresh using human shields, some of whom were children he molested.

No you wouldn't because you said both sides are the same.
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Dude, you just admitted you don't know the difference between good and evil. Since you're the one who brought it up, I'm surprised you'd confess this to be true.

Who is "we"? All Democrats? Yes, today's American politics are a hot mess. It'll take time to be fixed, but I think it will be. The pattern of history proves we continually move forward. Not so much lately, but overall.

Disagreed there was evil there, but thanks for supporting the burning of 89 human beings because the ATF didn't pick up Koresh downtown on a Saturday.

Thanks for the misquote. It proves to me you are disingenuous.
 
Stone said:
Yeah,...no big deal right? I mean,....it was only part of the justification used to launch the Mueller investigation which not only cost us millions of dollars for a fucking dog and pony show,....but also had a hand in tearing the country apart instead of coming together. Thats all. To say nothing of ruining Mr Page's life and costing him tons of money to defend the nonsense. Thats all... no big deal. :rolleyes:
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Just like husbands cheating on their wives is a big deal. Everyone does it, amirite? Especially if it's the younger woman coming onto the husband. LOL

OTOH, well over 90% of the wives I know about who had cheating husbands were pissed and filed for divorce. Sure, the husbands can whine about it, but they're just lying fuckwads who'd do anything to save their sleazy asses.....and prevent the wife from taking half of their concrete business. :laugh:
 
LV426 said:
You disagree that Koresh was evil?
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No, but then I don't believe in evil as a force.

Define evil. Did he fuck minors? Did he kill anyone? Did he enslave anyone?

While you think about that, please tell me how the lives of 89 people could be worth killing Koresh. Why not just shoot him in town? It'd be easy. He went there virtually alone every Saturday.
 
Dutch Uncle said:
No, but then I don't believe in evil as a force..
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Except when trying to equate both sides, though...


Define evil. Did he fuck minors? Did he kill anyone? Did he enslave anyone?
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Yes, yes, and yes.


While you think about that, please tell me how the lives of 89 people could be worth killing Koresh.
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The goal wasn't to kill Koresh.

The goal was to arrest him and put him on trial, and to disarm the cult.

Koresh and his people made sure that couldn't happen.

So are you going to bothsides this too?
 
Dutch Uncle said:
Why not just shoot him in town? It'd be easy. He went there virtually alone every Saturday.
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An excellent idea if your intent was to kill him, but the ATF's intent wasn't to do that.

It was to arrest him and try him in court, and to disarm the cult that was stashing weapons illegally.

He and his people took specific action to prevent that arrest and disarming from occurring.

Why didn't they just comply with the orders from law enforcement?
 
LV426 said:
Except when trying to equate both sides, though...
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Obviously that's the most important thing to you: To purposefully misconstrue my statement to be like Trump's about Charlottesvilles. You just want to pass blame, not discuss. Go for it.
 
Dutch Uncle said:
Just like husbands cheating on their wives is a big deal. Everyone does it, amirite? Especially if it's the younger woman coming onto the husband. LOL

OTOH, well over 90% of the wives I know about who had cheating husbands were pissed and filed for divorce. Sure, the husbands can whine about it, but they're just lying fuckwads who'd do anything to save their sleazy asses.....and prevent the wife from taking half of their concrete business. :laugh:
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1...THAT is one hell of a strawman.

2...THAT was one hell of a STORY!

3... I cant figure out what ANY of that would have to do with an agent falsifying information to get a FISA warrent???????
 
Stone said:
1...THAT is one hell of a strawman.

2...THAT was one hell of a STORY!

3... I cant figure out what ANY of that would have to do with an agent falsifying information to get a FISA warrent???????
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1. Disagreed.

2. Agreed.

3. No worries. Some will, some won't. Life goes on. ;)
 
Dutch Uncle said:
1. Disagreed.

2. Agreed.

3. No worries. Some will, some won't. Life goes on. ;)
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Its NOT a strawman? So..... you KNOW Im cheating on my wife with a younger woman? I sure wish somebody would have told ME about it. :laugh: I wonder who she is... LOL
 
Stone said:
Its NOT a strawman? So..... you KNOW Im cheating on my wife with a younger woman? I sure wish somebody would have told ME about it. :laugh: I wonder who she is... LOL
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I can guess. Just like I can guess Trump is fucking guilty but the Republicans have too many weenies to convict him.
 
LV426 said:
It was meant to be ironic.

Perhaps the ATF had to do what they did out of "necessity".

Remember? You said that it was OK to take lives "when necessary".

So...?
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They didn't. I remember the incident well. They were showboating for Congress trying to prove they needed more funding. Nothing better than an action video to make Congressional Reps slather a bit. That's one reason it's so well documented. They thought it'd look great, but didn't plan on a tough resistance.
 
Dutch Uncle said:
They didn't. I remember the incident well. They were showboating for Congress trying to prove they needed more funding. Nothing better than an action video to make Congressional Reps slather a bit.
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Are you sure about that?

Because necessity is really in the eye of the beholder, isn't it?

You might not have thought it was necessary, but you weren't there at the time and in the situation they were in.

You don't know the facts on the ground, and if you're OK with telling Black lives that they can be killed "when necessary", then you can't get your old man diapers in a bunch about the ATF doing what they did.
 
LV426 said:
Are you sure about that?

Because necessity is really in the eye of the beholder, isn't it?

You might not have thought it was necessary, but you weren't there at the time and in the situation they were in.

You don't know the facts on the ground, and if you're OK with telling Black lives that they can be killed "when necessary", then you can't get your old man diapers in a bunch about the ATF doing what they did.
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The ATF could have taken Koresh in town, relatively alone, on any Saturday then executed a warrant with the compound minus their leader. That's SOP.

The ATF deliberately chose to take Koresh in his own compound on weapons charges because it'd look better to see him kneeling down to ATF officers dressed like Stormtroopers. The ATF underestimated the resolve of Koresh and his followers. IMO, never underestimate anyone who is armed.

The ATF fucked up and the result was a national tragedy.
 
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