How the Ukraine situation should end.

[Stone]

I don't recall calling you a liar.

If anecdotes aren't a a valid means of bolstering leftist's arguments, they aren't a valid means pf bolstering yours, either. Are they?

Are you smarter than a leftist, or not?



Then say that. Don't try to appeal to authority.

I have big problems with my left hand. Hard to type for me one handed. Thats why most of my posts arent long or in as much detail as I would like. I have EXPLAINED THIS BEFORE.

 

[Legion]

Hardly any wood in a Ukrainian home,...exterior walls made of double layered brick,...not lumber. How would I just happen to know that Legion? Just pull it out of my ass? Got lucky? Quit being stupid.

Unless you can back up what you stated as a fact, why say it?

If you can't, expect to be challenged.

 

[McRocket]

Donbass gets folded back into the Russian Federation. New lines are drawn. Ukraine signs agreement to remain neutral with the promise of never becoming a NATO country but also remaining free and independent of Russian federation. ALL Russian troops withdraw from Ukraine immediately with "token" reparations paid to Ukraine to go towards rebuilding damage from invasion. Balance to be paid by UN, IMF, and Ukraine itself. This is actually what SHOULD have happened before a single shot was fired BTW....

WELL SAID, SIR!!!

If you agree to balance the flippin' budget...you get my vote for POTUS.

 

[McRocket]

The current president, Volodymyr Zelenskyy, will be murdered soon.

The Russian Federation will install a puppet government.

The entire country of the Ukraine will be part of the Russian Federation.

This is unavoidable, under the weak, spineless, sin huevos Biden.

I disagree with the third one.

I cannot see the Ukrainian people agreeing to being part of Russia again.
Remember, the Donbass region and Crimea both overwhelmingly voted to join Russia.
Ukrainians have no such love of Russia.

And if Russia absorbs Ukraine without the 35+ million Ukrainian people's consent?
They will just face decades of terrorist attacks.
And economic sanctions from the West.

And for what?
A mess of a country when they already have much of the best parts of it in the Donbass and Crimea?

Though the rest of your post seems possible/plausible to me.

 

[Jarod]

Donbass gets folded back into the Russian Federation. New lines are drawn. Ukraine signs agreement to remain neutral with the promise of never becoming a NATO country but also remaining free and independent of Russian federation. ALL Russian troops withdraw from Ukraine immediately with "token" reparations paid to Ukraine to go towards rebuilding damage from invasion. Balance to be paid by UN, IMF, and Ukraine itself. This is actually what SHOULD have happened before a single shot was fired BTW....

So, nobody can answer, who should Ukraine promise not to join NATO?

 

[Stone]

I'll leave it.

Oh well,....you are young, Im sure you'll get over it!

 

[Legion]

Oh well,....you are young, Im sure you'll get over it!

No offense taken.

 

[Legion]

There’s been a lot of talk from Bidenite officials and others about how excluding Ukraine from NATO would somehow violate Ukraine’s imaginary “sovereign right” to decide which alliances it joins.

That’s nonsense.

Ukraine has no more of a "sovereign right" to join NATO than I have to join the Council on Foreign Relations. International alliances get to choose their members, not the other way around.

Since any deal with Putin would have made adherence to a NATO-Ukraine agreement contingent on Russia’s continued compliance with the deal, this “concession” could be easily abrogated if Putin violated the deal.

But bungling Biden wouldn't even negotiate with Putin. What we’re seeing from here on out is what Putin did after we followed the advice of McFaul and Nichols and refused to negotiate seriously with him.

 

[Legion]

Last Sunday, hundreds marched from the Lincoln Memorial to the White House to demand that bungling Biden escalate US support for Ukraine. Former Ambassador to Ukraine William Taylor, who served under Obama, told the crowd Ukraine should be supported militarily/

Since that time, Putin has indeed ordered Russian forces into Ukraine.

NATO says the incursion is a violation of the Minsk Agreements, with Russia is a party to.

For his part, Putin blamed the incursion on Ukraine's possible inclusion in NATO.

As the situation in the region spirals, Americans have varying opinions on what the United States' role should be.

Nearly a month ago on January 27, a coalition of anti-war leftist groups including CODEPINK: Women For Peace, Answer Coalition, Party for Socialism and Liberation, and BLM's Black Alliance for Peace gathered in front of the White House to hold a "No War with Russia, Disband NATO" rally.


Watch the fun:

 

[Lionfish]

Last Sunday, hundreds marched from the Lincoln Memorial to the White House to demand that bungling Biden escalate US support for Ukraine. Former Ambassador to Ukraine William Taylor, who served under Obama, told the crowd Ukraine should be supported militarily/

Since that time, Putin has indeed ordered Russian forces into Ukraine.

NATO says the incursion is a violation of the Minsk Agreements, with Russia is a party to.

For his part, Putin blamed the incursion on Ukraine's possible inclusion in NATO.

As the situation in the region spirals, Americans have varying opinions on what the United States' role should be.

Nearly a month ago on January 27, a coalition of anti-war leftist groups including CODEPINK: Women For Peace, Answer Coalition, Party for Socialism and Liberation, and BLM's Black Alliance for Peace gathered in front of the White House to hold a "No War with Russia, Disband NATO" rally.


Watch the fun:

Hey, the last time Ukraine asked for help obama was prez. He took it seriously by giving them blankets, socks, and MRE's. Gotta love that loser.

 

[Legion]

Hey, the last time Ukraine asked for help obama was prez. He took it seriously by giving them blankets, socks, and MRE's. Gotta love that loser.

And here we go again. If you don't think this is his third term, I have some oceanfront property in Arizona to sell you.

 

[Cypress]

The current president, Volodymyr Zelenskyy, will be murdered soon.

The Russian Federation will install a puppet government.

The entire country of the Ukraine will be part of the Russian Federation.

This is unavoidable, under the weak, spineless, sin huevos Biden.

^ This was one of the most terrible predictions on JPP.

 

[moon]

It ain't over 'til the fat lady sings.

 

[Legion]

Donbass gets folded back into the Russian Federation. New lines are drawn. Ukraine signs agreement to remain neutral with the promise of never becoming a NATO country but also remaining free and independent of Russian federation. ALL Russian troops withdraw from Ukraine immediately with "token" reparations paid to Ukraine to go towards rebuilding damage from invasion. Balance to be paid by UN, IMF, and Ukraine itself. This is actually what SHOULD have happened before a single shot was fired BTW....

Ahem.

What is the priority of the growing Ukraine-victory lobby that stretches from the US to Finland, with notable outposts in Germany’s once-pacifist Green Party and in Downing Street?

The two sides have already reached agreement on the broadest issues: Zelenskyy has already stated that Ukraine will not join NATO and the Russian side has already accepted Ukraine’s entry into the European Union.

This loose but influential lobby holds that victory for Ukraine is a victory for NATO and the West, so defeat for Ukraine must mean their defeat as well.

It follows that enough military support must reach Ukraine to allow it to expel Russia’s forces, including in the Donetsk and Luhansk regions.

It sees Ukraine losing the war unless it receives much more Western support, including heavy weapons with the requisite training. And it sees NATO’s role as ensuring Ukraine drives out all Russian troops, with the hope that Putin himself will be driven out of office.

For this lobby, the greatest short-term threat is a ceasefire or, even worse, an armistice with Russia.

It is axiomatic that both sides must benefit if they are to end the war.

For Ukraine, this must include its unconditional recognition as an independent state, as well as the cessation of hostilities that would bring with it the return of millions of refugees.

While Putin cannot be given the two regions he demanded before starting the war, he can be provided with something that he can portray as a victory: plebiscites in both regions where properly certified residents, including returning refugees, would be allowed to vote on whether their oblast should remain Ukrainian or join Russia.

All of this is anathema for the victory lobby.

But its twin goals of driving out the Russians by force and bringing down Putin in the process would only be desirable if nuclear weapons could be un-invented.

As it is, they offer Russia a court of appeal when facing conventional defeat, in a manner that negates any conventional victory — something that is surely infinitely worse than the outcome of any referendum.







https://unherd.com/2022/04/how-the-ukraine-war-must-end/

 

[Tranquillus in Exile]

Donbass gets folded back into the Russian Federation. New lines are drawn. Ukraine signs agreement to remain neutral with the promise of never becoming a NATO country ... ALL Russian troops withdraw from Ukraine immediately with "token" reparations paid to Ukraine.

And the author of the most egregious war crime in Europe this century gets what he wanted at the price of "token" reparations.

Okay! he thinks - who's next on my list?

 

[moon]

It's Biden's war. He ended EU/Russian commercial co-operation. Russia will consider Ukraine as compensation.

 

[Legion]

It's Biden's war. He ended EU/Russian commercial co-operation. Russia will consider Ukraine as compensation.

How dare you say that?

 

[moon]

How dare you say that?

I'm an internationalist. I'm not blinded by any flag to wave.
The US has used its dollar standard power to blackmail most of Europe into breaking commercial ties with the Russians. Nord Stream threatened to end American financial dominance.
Any other half-baked NATO ' self-determination ' squawking for this horseshit is horseshit. Follow the money.
Next............................the Europeans wake up.

 

[Legion]

I'm an internationalist. I'm not blinded by any flag to wave.

I understand that, but others claim you "hate Jews".

 

[Jarod]

Donbass gets folded back into the Russian Federation. New lines are drawn. Ukraine signs agreement to remain neutral with the promise of never becoming a NATO country but also remaining free and independent of Russian federation. ALL Russian troops withdraw from Ukraine immediately with "token" reparations paid to Ukraine to go towards rebuilding damage from invasion. Balance to be paid by UN, IMF, and Ukraine itself. This is actually what SHOULD have happened before a single shot was fired BTW....

Why should Ukraine agree to any of that.