I hope its Tim Kaine, Gov of VA!

It's kind of funny how all the guys - even liberal guys - got so mad at me whenever I proposed that that they couldn't even make something resembling a rational argument. All they can say is 'WHY DO YOU WANT GOVERNMENT DO EVERYTHING MAKE PERFECT?!', and of course, I'm not suggesting anything of the sort. We wouldn't even need to raise taxes for universal daycare and college. Equality of pay is just common sense and it will only hurt the businesses that hate women. If anything, this would help the economy out tremendously, and bring economic stability to millions, and give us a well-educated populace that's not dependent on whether you had an accidental pregnancy or how rich daddy was.

'AND WHERE DOES DAT END? WHEN YOU GET LOLLYPOP ON YOR BIRTHDAY?!" - if that's the only thing they can come up with, they really need to re-evaluate their positions.
 
Watermark said:
It's kind of funny how all the guys - even liberal guys - got so mad at me whenever I proposed that that they couldn't even make something resembling a rational argument. All they can say is 'WHY DO YOU WANT GOVERNMENT DO EVERYTHING MAKE PERFECT?!', and of course, I'm not suggesting anything of the sort. We wouldn't even need to raise taxes for universal daycare and college. Equality of pay is just common sense and it will only hurt the businesses that hate women. If anything, this would help the economy out tremendously, and bring economic stability to millions, and give us a well-educated populace that's not dependent on whether you had an accidental pregnancy or how rich daddy was.

'AND WHERE DOES DAT END? WHEN YOU GET LOLLYPOP ON YOR BIRTHDAY?!" - if that's the only thing they can come up with, they really need to re-evaluate their positions.
Click to expand...

WM, how do you propose equality of pay? The issue as I understand it isn't that men get paid more for the doing the same job because they don't. It's that men tend to do more manual jobs that take a lot of strength and earn a little higher pay than do different kind of jobs by women. Thus the government (or maybe I should say supporters of equality of pay) want to put catergorizations on certain different jobs that men and women do to say they are comparable and thus the pay should be comparable.
 
cawacko said:
WM, how do you propose equality of pay? The issue as I understand it isn't that men get paid more for the doing the same job because they don't. It's that men tend to do more manual jobs that take a lot of strength and earn a little higher pay than do different kind of jobs by women. Thus the government (or maybe I should say supporters of equality of pay) want to put catergorizations on certain different jobs that men and women do to say they are comparable and thus the pay should be comparable.
Click to expand...

no, men get paid more for the SAME job is what statistics show.....along with what you stated....:)

and i have most certainly been a recipient of such tactics, a few times in my working career.

care
 
cawacko said:
WM, how do you propose equality of pay? The issue as I understand it isn't that men get paid more for the doing the same job because they don't. It's that men tend to do more manual jobs that take a lot of strength and earn a little higher pay than do different kind of jobs by women. Thus the government (or maybe I should say supporters of equality of pay) want to put catergorizations on certain different jobs that men and women do to say they are comparable and thus the pay should be comparable.
Click to expand...

Caw, I believe, when I read it, that the 75:100 ratio of pay for women was for the same job, not for any job in general, but I'll research it again. Of course, any government intervention should be about jobs in the same area, and take performance and hours worked into account.
 
Watermark said:
It's kind of funny how all the guys - even liberal guys - got so mad at me whenever I proposed that that they couldn't even make something resembling a rational argument. All they can say is 'WHY DO YOU WANT GOVERNMENT DO EVERYTHING MAKE PERFECT?!', and of course, I'm not suggesting anything of the sort. We wouldn't even need to raise taxes for universal daycare and college. Equality of pay is just common sense and it will only hurt the businesses that hate women. If anything, this would help the economy out tremendously, and bring economic stability to millions, and give us a well-educated populace that's not dependent on whether you had an accidental pregnancy or how rich daddy was.

'AND WHERE DOES DAT END? WHEN YOU GET LOLLYPOP ON YOR BIRTHDAY?!" - if that's the only thing they can come up with, they really need to re-evaluate their positions.
Click to expand...

Okay here is my rational argument:

What you propose is retarded and would cost a fortune, and your claim that you could guarantee college and daycare to everyone without raising taxes is laughable unless you made spending cuts you are not willing to make.
 
Epicurus said:
Okay here is my rational argument:

What you propose is retarded and would cost a fortune, and your claim that you could guarantee college and daycare to everyone without raising taxes is laughable unless you made spending cuts you are not willing to make.
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How much exactly do you think it would cost?
 
Watermark said:
The 80 cents on the dollar statistic, according to this article, DOES lump people in different jobs together, so I don't think it's reliable. Then again, this is a libertarian source.

http://www.iwf.org/campus/show/18948.html
Click to expand...

That's the thing if were truly that large of a delta for a man and a woman doing the same job with the same experience etc. it would rightfully be a national outrage. But it's not and that's why it is a fringe issue mostly among activist feminists.
 
cawacko said:
That's the thing if were truly that large of a delta for a man and a woman doing the same job with the same experience etc. it would rightfully be a national outrage. But it's not and that's why it is a fringe issue mostly among activist feminists.
Click to expand...

You know Cawacko, I don’t know of anything you have written that has infuriated me more than this thoughtless expression of what you want to believe. You’re wrong. And you’re not outraged because you don’t care. You enjoy using Libertarian false information to pretend that there is nothing to care about.

This is from the United States Government – a regular bastion of radical feminism.



Why Women Still Make Less than Men
"... death, taxes and the glass ceiling."
By Robert Longley, About.com
Despite a sense of continued progress toward gender equality in the workplace, the federal government has confirmed that the workplace earnings gap between men and women still persists today.
According to General Accountability Office (GAO) Report GAO-04-351, the weekly earnings of full-time working women were about three-fourths of men's during 2001. The report was prepared from a study of the earnings history of over 9,300 Americans for the last 18 years.
Even accounting for factors such as occupation, industry, race, marital status and job tenure, reports the GAO, working women today earn an average of 80 cents for every dollar earned by their male counterparts. This pay gap has persisted for the past two decades, remaining relatively consistent from 1983-2000.
In attempting to explain the discrepancies in pay between men and women, the GAO concluded:
• Women in the workforce are also less likely to work a full-time schedule and are more likely to leave the labor force for longer periods of time than men, further suppressing women's wages. These differing work patterns lead to an even larger earnings gap between men and women - suggesting that working women are penalized for their dual roles as wage earners and those who disproportionately care for home and family.
• Men with children appear to get an earnings boost, whereas women lose earnings. Men with children earn about 2% more on average than men without children, according to the GAO findings, whereas women with children earn about 2.5% less than women without children.

http://usgovinfo.about.com/cs/censusstatistic/a/womenspay.htm?p=1
 
Darla said:
You know Cawacko, I don’t know of anything you have written that has infuriated me more than this thoughtless expression of what you want to believe. You’re wrong. And you’re not outraged because you don’t care. You enjoy using Libertarian false information to pretend that there is nothing to care about.

This is from the United States Government – a regular bastion of radical feminism.



Why Women Still Make Less than Men
"... death, taxes and the glass ceiling."
By Robert Longley, About.com
Despite a sense of continued progress toward gender equality in the workplace, the federal government has confirmed that the workplace earnings gap between men and women still persists today.
According to General Accountability Office (GAO) Report GAO-04-351, the weekly earnings of full-time working women were about three-fourths of men's during 2001. The report was prepared from a study of the earnings history of over 9,300 Americans for the last 18 years.
Even accounting for factors such as occupation, industry, race, marital status and job tenure, reports the GAO, working women today earn an average of 80 cents for every dollar earned by their male counterparts. This pay gap has persisted for the past two decades, remaining relatively consistent from 1983-2000.
In attempting to explain the discrepancies in pay between men and women, the GAO concluded:
• Women in the workforce are also less likely to work a full-time schedule and are more likely to leave the labor force for longer periods of time than men, further suppressing women's wages. These differing work patterns lead to an even larger earnings gap between men and women - suggesting that working women are penalized for their dual roles as wage earners and those who disproportionately care for home and family.
• Men with children appear to get an earnings boost, whereas women lose earnings. Men with children earn about 2% more on average than men without children, according to the GAO findings, whereas women with children earn about 2.5% less than women without children.

http://usgovinfo.about.com/cs/censusstatistic/a/womenspay.htm?p=1
Click to expand...

And things like national daycare would take care of no.1.

It wouldn't be expensive.
 
Darla said:
You know Cawacko, I don’t know of anything you have written that has infuriated me more than this thoughtless expression of what you want to believe. You’re wrong. And you’re not outraged because you don’t care. You enjoy using Libertarian false information to pretend that there is nothing to care about.

This is from the United States Government – a regular bastion of radical feminism.



Why Women Still Make Less than Men
"... death, taxes and the glass ceiling."
By Robert Longley, About.com
Despite a sense of continued progress toward gender equality in the workplace, the federal government has confirmed that the workplace earnings gap between men and women still persists today.
According to General Accountability Office (GAO) Report GAO-04-351, the weekly earnings of full-time working women were about three-fourths of men's during 2001. The report was prepared from a study of the earnings history of over 9,300 Americans for the last 18 years.
Even accounting for factors such as occupation, industry, race, marital status and job tenure, reports the GAO, working women today earn an average of 80 cents for every dollar earned by their male counterparts. This pay gap has persisted for the past two decades, remaining relatively consistent from 1983-2000.
In attempting to explain the discrepancies in pay between men and women, the GAO concluded:
• Women in the workforce are also less likely to work a full-time schedule and are more likely to leave the labor force for longer periods of time than men, further suppressing women's wages. These differing work patterns lead to an even larger earnings gap between men and women - suggesting that working women are penalized for their dual roles as wage earners and those who disproportionately care for home and family.
• Men with children appear to get an earnings boost, whereas women lose earnings. Men with children earn about 2% more on average than men without children, according to the GAO findings, whereas women with children earn about 2.5% less than women without children.

http://usgovinfo.about.com/cs/censusstatistic/a/womenspay.htm?p=1
Click to expand...


As an antedotal example, if you and I go interview for an analyst position with a firm they are going offer me $60k for the position and offer you $48k?
 
Darla said:
Well, for instance, McCain voted against a bill that sought equal pay for women, while of course, Hillary voted yes.

But i don't know how much that legislation would close the gap. I think that for instance, massive raises in daycare funding, might do the most. It's an issue that has multiple reasons, but I think, none more so than childbearing. education is going to close the gap more, with more women entering college every year than men. Some of this is getting better because of what women themselves are doing. But we need better day care, and we need it funded like other countries do, and I bet she'd back that.
Click to expand...

At the end of the day I think closing the income gap is the best metric for measuring equality for women in the work force. I hope you are correct about the fact that education will close the inequity. As for daycare, unless Obama has completely sold his soul to the establishment, I think he'd be just as likely to support that as she would.

I still think women need to be less afraid of bragging and asking for more money. I can't tell you how many women I know think that people will just give them raises and promotions without them going after it. It happens occassionally, but more often than not, they have to be more aggressive and vocal about their worth.
 
cawacko said:
That's the thing if were truly that large of a delta for a man and a woman doing the same job with the same experience etc. it would rightfully be a national outrage. But it's not and that's why it is a fringe issue mostly among activist feminists.
Click to expand...

WFT? Are you on crack?
 
cawacko said:
So you believe the same thing as Darla, that if you and I go interview for an analyst position they are going offer me $60k for the job and will offer you $48k?
Click to expand...

It’s not about what you believe! There is no need for any faith-based suspension of disbelief. This isn’t about a deity. The facts are right there, from the fucking United States Government who studied this. What is wrong with you man?

Your simplistic question is so beyond any relevance, it’s immeasurable. They would offer her less. Whether it would be that much less, doesn’t matter. Those figures are averaged out, (do you know what a fucking average is?), but they do take into account all of the things you claimed they didn’t take into account, and therefore made them false according to you. You were wrong, Just say so!
 
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