‘If God is dead, then everything is permitted.’

domer76 said:
“But yet he doeth the will of my father”. So, do what your god tells you, or else. Like the 10 Commandments? Well, Goddam it, I guess a lot of people are truly fucked, huh? Or is it this?

To be saved, according to scripture:

https://www.theonenessofgod.org/hrf_faq/1-what-are-the-biblical-requirements-for-salvation-a/

Gotta believe Jesus is the Son of God
Gotta believe Jesus died for your sins
Gotta believe God raised Jesus from the dead


Among others.

So, Jethro, it looks like I’m NOT the one who makes those claims.

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AGAIN you dont gotta do anything. You're entirely free but choices have consequences. I know you want a world where you can do whatever you would like to do and you should never have to suffer a negative consequence. Unfortunately that's not how the real works is. It's amazing how angry people like you get at others for the choices YOU make. Being angry with me or God won't help you.
 
Oscillator said:
So do you need an invisible man in the sky to tell you that murder is wrong? You can't think of one single reason for it to be wrong except that God says it is wrong? That's a very strange ethic.
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No I don't. I can think of plenty of reasons why murder is wrong. What I cant think of is a logical reason to tell others its wrong if there is no God.
 
Yakuda said:
I don't think it needs to be an "established fact". We didn't create ourselves and we didn't decide how many legs or eyes or ears we should have just like we didn't decide to yearn for freedom.

You can't invoke chance either or my favorite, "nature".
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I am agnostic and am suspicious when anyone claims as established fact that humans and our moral precepts descend directly from God.

I am also dubious of militant atheists who seemingly claim that we have achieved omniscience and know for a fact we are just meat puppets and the only reality out there is just quarks and electrons.


I don't know why most of the world's religious and philosophical traditions beginning in the Axial Age began to converge on a shared sense of natural law and a similar ethical framework that went beyond what was neccessary for material necessity and evolutionary requirement. But I think it's all comes down to the fact we have a unique advanced sentience and a complex psychology that allows us to transcend basic biological and material necessity.
 
JesusAI said:
i think you'll be ok as long as you have something in your brain that tell you mass murder is wrong.

do you have something that tells you mass murder is wrong, or are you a population reduction psychotic?
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I sure as shit don’t need any Commandments to tell me murder is wrong. Why is it that you do?
 
"If God Is Dead, Then Everything Is Permitted."

What horrors did God prevent when He was alive?

I can't read BP's posts,

but that question would seem to be the obvious one.
 
domer76 said:
I sure as shit don’t need any Commandments to tell me murder is wrong. Why is it that you do?
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I've always been innately peaceful, a pussy you might call it.

morality is my born nature. but there is reason to it.

cooperation is smarter than zero sum human on human predation.

morality is our most human evolved trait.
 
NiftyNiblick said:
"If God Is Dead, Then Everything Is Permitted."

What horrors did God prevent when He was alive?

I can't read BP's posts,

but that question would seem to be the obvious one.
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If there is a God, or a supreme transcendent truth, I don't think it directly acts in human or Earthly affairs. Maybe it acts through human beings: Martin Luther King Jr , Dalai Lama, Buddha, the human Jesus, Confucious, Halima Aden, Dietrich Bonhoeffer, Mother Theresa, and more.
 
Cypress said:
I am agnostic and am suspicious when anyone claims as established fact that humans and our moral precepts descend directly from God.

I am also dubious of militant atheists who seemingly claim that we have achieved omniscience and know for a fact we are just meat puppets and the only reality out there is just quarks and electrons.


I don't know why most of the world's religious and philosophical traditions beginning in the Axial Age began to converge on a shared sense of natural law and a similar ethical framework that went beyond what was neccessary for material necessity and evolutionary requirement. But I think it's all comes down to the fact we have a unique advanced sentience and a complex psychology that allows us to transcend basic biological and material necessity.
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I have no objections to your suspicion but I see how humans behave and I'm not overly impressed. As a result their decisions about morality are not absolute. There has been be something greater and more knowledgeable. We aren't perfect and if we aren't accountable to something higher then we are doomed.

I couldnt agree more.
 
IBDaMann said:
So you actually worship an invisible Climate goddess who tells you that physics violations are thettled thienth? You can't think of one single reason that physics violations might be wrong? That's a very strange ethic.
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Well, given that I actually understand some of that science I'm a bit biased toward it.

And, no, it violates no laws of physics. Not one. Why don't you tell me what you think is violated and I'll try to explain it to you.
 
Cypress said:
I am agnostic and am suspicious when anyone claims as established fact that humans and our moral precepts descend directly from God.

I am also dubious of militant atheists who seemingly claim that we have achieved omniscience and know for a fact we are just meat puppets and the only reality out there is just quarks and electrons.


I don't know why most of the world's religious and philosophical traditions beginning in the Axial Age began to converge on a shared sense of natural law and a similar ethical framework that went beyond what was neccessary for material necessity and evolutionary requirement. But I think it's all comes down to the fact we have a unique advanced sentience and a complex psychology that allows us to transcend basic biological and material necessity.
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You do not understand that your agnosticism is a claim of certain knowledge.
 
Cypress said:
If there is a God, or a supreme transcendent truth, I don't think it directly acts in human or Earthly affairs. Maybe it acts through human beings: Martin Luther King Jr , Dalai Lama, Buddha, the human Jesus, Confucious, Halima Aden, Dietrich Bonhoeffer, Mother Theresa, and more.
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The sad part is people have thrown the baby out with the bath water. They have determined faith/religion is bad because of bad actors. I think it was Ghandi who said, he liked Christianity he just didn't like christians. People have discarded religion because of bad practitioners of the religion not because the religion itself is bad.
 
Yakuda said:
The sad part is people have thrown the baby out with the bath water. They have determined faith/religion is bad because of bad actors. I think it was Ghandi who said, he liked Christianity he just didn't like christians. People have discarded religion because of bad practitioners of the religion not because the religion itself is bad.
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The demise of religion has been predicted for centuries, but it seems to go through cycles.

Religious leaders and laypersons can be just as corrupt as anyone else.

Whether or not there is a transcendant truth, religious belief and practice are here to stay in one form or another. If I'm not mistaken, it was the skeptic David Hume who thought religion still served a valuable purpose, even if he was skeptical of God.

Religion has permeated human society, even when religious context is stripped away. Christian and Confucian values and ethics still permeate China and Europe, even when the religious context is stripped away, and when formal religious practice wanes.
 
Cypress said:
The demise of religion has been predicted for centuries, but it seems to go through cycles.

Religious leaders and laypersons can be just as corrupt as anyone else.

Whether or not there is a transcendant truth, religious belief and practice are here to stay in one form or another. If I'm not mistaken, it was the skeptic David Hume who thought religion still served a valuable purpose, even if he was skeptical of God.

Religion has permeated human society, even when religious context is stripped away. Christian and Confucian values and ethics still permeate China and Europe, even when religious context is stripped away, and when religious practice wanes.
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Religion will never disappear

I think I already said that.

And everyone who claims to know murder is wrong without God are the product of a society that taught murder was wrong as directed by God. The effect of God being absent from our society is rearing it's ugly head more and more.
 
Yakuda said:
Religion will never disappear

I think I already said that.

And everyone who claims to know murder is wrong without God are the product of a society that taught murder was wrong as directed by God. The effect of God being absent from our society is rearing it's ugly head more and more.
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I think even in Paleolithic nomadic cultures, unjustified homicidal violence was frowned upon.

But life probably wasn't valued quite as much. These people were always living on the edge of starvation and destitution. It was common practice to abandon new born babies if they were percieved to be a burden to the resources of the tribe.

Exposing babies outside certainly continued into ancient Greece and other cultures. In Pre-islamic society, it was common practice to bury female babies alive, because females were not as valuable as male offspring. I think it's indisputable that Islam and Christianity elevated the value of life in theological principle, even if in practice people were still murdering the sh*t out of each other.
 
Yakuda said:
What's strange is you cant seem to comprehend the difference between not sharing the reasons and not being able to communicate the reasons.
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So far all I know is that you seem to require that an invisible being in the heavens tells you what is right and wrong and without that you can't explain why something might be right or wrong other than "God said it".
 
Yakuda said:
And everyone who claims to know murder is wrong without God are the product of a society that taught murder was wrong as directed by God. The effect of God being absent from our society is rearing it's ugly head more and more.
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Yeah, here's a great example:

GettyImages-1216826630.jpg


Matthew 7:21-23 "Not everyone who says to me 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven..."
 
Cypress said:
I think even in Paleolithic nomadic cultures, unjustified homicidal violence was frowned upon.

But life probably wasn't valued quite as much. These people were always living on the edge of starvation and destitution. It was common practice to abandon new born babies if they were percieved to be a burden to the resources of the tribe.

Exposing babies outside certainly continued into ancient Greece and other cultures. In Pre-islamic society, it was common practice to bury female babies alive, because females were not as valuable as male offspring. I think it's indisputable that Islam and Christianity elevated the value of life in theological principle, even if in practice people were still murdering the sh*t out of each other.
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Life is worth very little today
 
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