Interesting about God and Democrats...

[h=2]Interesting about Jesus and rightwingers[/h]
Some of them don't seem very Christ-like.
​
 
Dixie said:
Wow, so we basically all (you, me, and the FF) believe in the same God! I am a spiritualist who doesn't believe God has human attributes of love, hate, jealousy, anger, desire or need. I don't believe God requires anything from us, we are entirely free to do as we please, but we reap what we sow. Call it Karma maybe? That's my basis for spiritual belief, and it appears to coincide with yours, and the Deists. Let's be emphatically clear here, this is NOT ATHEISM.
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I have never once claimed that atheism was the source.

If indeed you are spiritual and view "God" as you've stated, then yes, we would share the same beliefs. However, there is a problem with you being spiritual as opposed to being religious. The spiritual mind is in connection with, and often led by a strong sense of humanity. To the spirtual mind, that devotion is more powerful than money .. it is more powerful than learned behavior and environment. It becomes your character. It isn't something you put on, it is something you live.

My problem with your claim to be spiritual is that it is not your character. Your perspectives on slavery .. which I do not care to rehash ... is just one demonstration that what you claim is not what you are. Your perspectives on life and politics are a glaring example that you're just fooling yourself. Your confusion about whether Jesus was a liberal is a flashing sign that you do not understand the character of Jesus?

You don't even seem to understand the concept behind "To whom much is given, much is required." That isn't a religious concept, it's a spiritual dictate. Where is that in your politics?

Personally I don't care about labels. I don't care what anyone calls themselves or what label they wear. I believe in Nature and spirituality. I judge people by their character and their heart. That's what spiritual people do.

See, here is where we're having a problem, BAC.... Nowhere did I say that they "affirmed their Christianity." Those words are not there. I distinctly pointed out, they couldn't publicly flaunt their religious philosophy and be reasonably expected to form a non-theocratic government that embraced ALL religions and religious freedom. Such a thing would not have been accepted... Would you allow Pat Robertson to write your freaking Constitution? Would you accept anything he wrote and ratify it? I sincerely doubt it, and that is the point. The FFs couldn't very well run around spouting their personal religious beliefs and be expected to remain impartial while creating the Constitution. It's ludicrous and terribly ignorant to think they would have done so, even if they wanted to.
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If you say you didn't say or mean that, I accept that and apologize. I don't accuse you of being a liar or even a dishonest poster.

I also agree with your conclusion here .. with the caveat that even what many if not most personally believed and kept out of the Constitution, it was not the mystical version of Christianity that passes today. That truth is clearly demonstrated in their writings as well as actions. The key to unlocking that truth is to be found in the age they were living .. the Age of Enlightenment. They were closer in time to the real Jesus .. who was not the Son of God, not did he ever proclaim himself to be. They were closer in time to the truth of the orgins of mystical organized religion .. and they wanted to escape from it.

"I almost shudder at the thought of alluding to the most fatal example of the abuses of grief which the history of mankind has preserved--the Cross. Consider what calamities that engine of grief has produced!" --- John Adams, letter to Thomas Jefferson

"As I understand the Christian religion, it was, and is, a revelation. But how has it happened that millions of fables, tales, legends, have been blended with both Jewish and Christian revelation that have made them the most bloody religion that ever existed?" --- John Adams, letter to F.A. Van der Kamp, Dec. 27, 1816

"In every country and every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot ... they have perverted the purest religion ever preached to man into mystery and jargon, unintelligible to all mankind, and therefore the safer engine for their purpose." --- Thomas Jefferson, to Horatio Spafford, March 17, 1814

"Is uniformity attainable? Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, imprisoned; yet we have not advanced an inch towards uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one half the world fools, and the other half hypocrites. To support roguery and error all over the earth." --- Thomas Jefferson, from "Notes on Virginia"

"But a short time elapsed after the death of the great reformer of the Jewish religion, before his principles were departed from by those who professed to be his special servants, and perverted into an engine for enslaving mankind, and aggrandizing their oppressors in Church and State." --- Thomas Jefferson to S. Kercheval, 1810

I could go on for pages and pages. This is history. So my question to you .. if you know this history .. suppossedly better than me .. why do you claim otherwise?

You can call me a racist all you like, BAC, it doesn't bother me.
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That's good because it doesn't bother me to call you one.

I have never uttered a racist word to anyone, and I don't plan to do so.
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You don't get it. Perhaps being from Slapout, Alabama, you simply lack perspective. I'm just one of many who can see you. Coincidence?

And by the way, you once claimed that being "Dixie" had something to do with it. Other than I think it's a name more suiting for a woman, it has nothing to do with it. I knew a Dixie on a different site .. a woman .. a very conservative woman .. and I didn't call her a racist although others did. Some here on this site can attest to that. It isn't the name, it isn't because you're a conservative .. it's because you're a racist.

As for history, I probably know more than you do, because you have closed your mind to all other viewpoints and have stubbornly refused to even honestly evaluate what others say. You demonstrated this already, by completely misquoting me and what I've articulated. This would be bad enough if we were having a verbal conversation, but the text is there for you to read and confirm what was said. This now becomes deliberate ignorance on your part. As I said once before, you are like the black Archie Bunker!
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Sure, you know history. That's why I'm schooling you on the Founders. Ever heard of Thomas Paine?

Modern History Sourcebook: Thomas Paine: Of the Religion of Deism Compared with the Christian Religion
http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/mod/paine-deism.asp

What was that noise you were saying about Deism? Go educate yourself.

I've told you what I believe, and it's the same thing you believe. This isn't about what we personally believe, or what the FFs personally believed. It's about the basis and foundation of the country and government, which relies on the existence of something greater than man, which endowed us with our freedoms, rights and liberties. It doesn't matter what version you think it is, or if you even believe there is anything, that was the foundation and principle of our nation.
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I know what you say you believe .. which kinda' flies in the face of what you are. I was just pointing out the inconsistencies.

As demonstrated, I know what the founding principles were better than you.

Where did I ever post that Jefferson was a Christian? Do you not realize you keep posting shit that I have not ever said? Are you translating my posts through some kind of Dog Whistle Code program before reading or something? Because, if that's the case, we've lost communication, we aren't speaking the same language, and there's no telling what I am saying to you.
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Save the dog whistle for your boyfriend.

You claim to know history, but you seem unaware of who the Founders even were. I was just educating you.

I've never said we were a "Christian Nation." That would clearly be a Theocracy. We are not a theocracy! I've heard people say this before, and its' a misnomer. It's a very poor choice of words, but the intent is to say we are a nation based on the belief that 'God' endows us with our rights and not man. That's a fairly universal concept we can all agree on, regardless of our personal view of what is "God."

Me pointing this out, does not mean I am a Christian or supporting the "Christian Nation" claims. I've never made such a statement, and it is frankly ignorant of the principle itself. We can't both be a "Christian Nation" and also religiously free.
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I was pointing out what you seemed unaware of.

I don't think the founders were all the same thing. I think they all had individual beliefs. Some might have been "Deist" but Deism was not devoid of belief in God. In fact, it is very spiritual in nature, and oddly enough, pretty much the same belief you and I have.
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I never once said Deists didn't believe in God .. I said they didn't believe in revealed religions, didn't believe in Christianity .. and this is where you entered the fray claiming otherwise.
 
Once again I see those who believe in nothing, finding it necessary to try and denigrate those who choose to believe.
And yet, I don't see those who believe telling the non-believers that they must believe.
In regards to those on this forum.

If I choose to believe and upon death I find I was wrong, then I just wasted my time; but if you choose not to believe and then find out you are wrong, then you're just wasted.
 
blackascoal said:
I have never once claimed that atheism was the source.
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You said the founders didn't believe in some fairy tale. Well, they believed in the same God as you and I.

If indeed you are spiritual and view "God" as you've stated, then yes, we would share the same beliefs. However, there is a problem with you being spiritual as opposed to being religious. The spiritual mind is in connection with, and often led by a strong sense of humanity. To the spirtual mind, that devotion is more powerful than money .. it is more powerful than learned behavior and environment. It becomes your character. It isn't something you put on, it is something you live.
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The problem is, you know nothing about how I live. You know nothing about me, only what you have read me post here. I have a VERY strong sense of humanity. I devote hours of my personal time to helping others. I've been doing this since I was a little boy. I don't happen to believe it's the government's responsibility to do this, it's our individual responsibility as good citizens. I encourage everyone to devote time and money to charity, it is a rewarding experience. I have previously posted links to the charities I am involved with. To claim that I am not caring of humanity, shows a complete bigoted lack of understanding and comprehension when it comes to me personally.

My problem with your claim to be spiritual is that it is not your character. Your perspectives on slavery .. which I do not care to rehash ... is just one demonstration that what you claim is not what you are. Your perspectives on life and politics are a glaring example that you're just fooling yourself. Your confusion about whether Jesus was a liberal is a flashing sign that you do not understand the character of Jesus?
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My perspective on slavery is that it was a legal practice and institution in America long before the Civil War. That our founding fathers condoned it, accepted it, and didn't do a damn thing to prevent it or put an end to it in this country. My perspective on politics is, it's not the government's place to do charity work... it's OUR place, as individuals. Removing ourselves from that obligation and responsibility and laying it on the government, is NOT conducive with what I believe. I'm not confused about Jesus, you stated clearly he wasn't into politics, so there is no way he could have been a liberal... or a conservative, for that matter. He certainly wouldn't have condoned what the Liberals have come to endorse. That's my opinion.

You don't even seem to understand the concept behind "To whom much is given, much is required." That isn't a religious concept, it's a spiritual dictate. Where is that in your politics?
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Let's be clear, religious concepts are spiritual in nature. All religion is spiritual. That doesn't mean all spirituality is religious. My politics have little to do with my spiritual beliefs, because I don't believe our government should assume responsibilities of the individual. I think that actually does more ultimate harm than good, because it removes the sense of responsibility to our fellow man. We become complacent in doing things to help others because we pay our taxes and lay it off on the government to handle. It's not their place.

Personally I don't care about labels. I don't care what anyone calls themselves or what label they wear. I believe in Nature and spirituality. I judge people by their character and their heart. That's what spiritual people do.
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But you don't judge me by my character and heart, you judge me based on stereotypes and prejudice. You repeatedly call me "racist" when there is nothing on this board, or any board, to indicate I am racist. I don't say racist things here, or anywhere, and never have. Anyone who has ever known me personally, would literally laugh their ass off at the notion someone called me a racist. I am about the farthest thing from a racist as you'll ever meet. But you see "Dixie" ...a Confederate flag... someone who defends the South against the ignorant who want to blame slavery and racism all on the South... and therefore, you have determined I must be a racist.

If you say you didn't say or mean that, I accept that and apologize. I don't accuse you of being a liar or even a dishonest poster.

I also agree with your conclusion here .. with the caveat that even what many if not most personally believed and kept out of the Constitution, it was not the mystical version of Christianity that passes today. That truth is clearly demonstrated in their writings as well as actions. The key to unlocking that truth is to be found in the age they were living .. the Age of Enlightenment. They were closer in time to the real Jesus .. who was not the Son of God, not did he ever proclaim himself to be. They were closer in time to the truth of the orgins of mystical organized religion .. and they wanted to escape from it.
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Again, they didn't seek to "keep out of the Constitution" what wasn't appropriate to put in there. Why would they put Christianity in the Constitution, or Hinduism, or Buddhism, or Judaism, or Catholicism? The Constitution is an outline of our freedoms and liberties, there is not a place there for preaching religious belief. It's like arguing they sought to keep pictures of God off of police cars... no purpose or reason for God to be on a police car... it makes no sense, it's not supposed to be there to begin with, so it's a pointless point to make.

The Founding Fathers didn't want to escape religion, if they had, they would have formed an Atheist nation, devoid of any mention of "Nature's God" or a a "Creator," but they didn't do that. They wanted to form a nation that was religiously free, where people were free to practice whatever religion they pleased, or not practice any religion if they so desired. They sought Freedom OF Religion, not Freedom FROM religion.

"I almost shudder at the thought of alluding to the most fatal example of the abuses of grief which the history of mankind has preserved--the Cross. Consider what calamities that engine of grief has produced!" --- John Adams, letter to Thomas Jefferson

"As I understand the Christian religion, it was, and is, a revelation. But how has it happened that millions of fables, tales, legends, have been blended with both Jewish and Christian revelation that have made them the most bloody religion that ever existed?" --- John Adams, letter to F.A. Van der Kamp, Dec. 27, 1816

"In every country and every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot ... they have perverted the purest religion ever preached to man into mystery and jargon, unintelligible to all mankind, and therefore the safer engine for their purpose." --- Thomas Jefferson, to Horatio Spafford, March 17, 1814

"Is uniformity attainable? Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, imprisoned; yet we have not advanced an inch towards uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one half the world fools, and the other half hypocrites. To support roguery and error all over the earth." --- Thomas Jefferson, from "Notes on Virginia"

"But a short time elapsed after the death of the great reformer of the Jewish religion, before his principles were departed from by those who professed to be his special servants, and perverted into an engine for enslaving mankind, and aggrandizing their oppressors in Church and State." --- Thomas Jefferson to S. Kercheval, 1810

I could go on for pages and pages. This is history. So my question to you .. if you know this history .. suppossedly better than me .. why do you claim otherwise?
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Again, you are reverting back to your previous inferences that I have stated we are a "Christian Nation." Did you not just apologize for falsely accusing me of that and admit you were mistaken? So why are you right back at this again, as if I have ever argued this? I've not defended Christianity with regard to our founding, only the belief that something greater than man endowed our rights. We seem to agree on that, but for some reason, you keep wanting to make me a defender of something I never stated.

That's good because it doesn't bother me to call you one.
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Well it should bother you to accuse someone falsely. If I have said something you construed as racist, please point this out so we can have a discussion about it, because I am willing to bet, like the "Christian Nation" thing, you have completely misunderstood something. I'm not a racist, and it doesn't matter to me how many times you post that I am, or call me a racist. I know what is inside my own heart, my friends and family know me and what is in my heart, and what you think of me doesn't really matter.

To me personally, it matters more that you realize you've made a terrible mistake and judged me unfairly. Not for MY sake, but for YOURS. If you knew me better, you'd realize I am the kind of 'white guy' you want in your corner when the going gets tough, because I don't back down. That's what the whole Rebel flag thing is about, defiance, standing for what you believe in despite criticism and persecution. If an injustice is done to you, my friend, I am someone who will stand by your side no matter what, I won't bail because the heat is turned up.

You don't get it. Perhaps being from Slapout, Alabama, you simply lack perspective. I'm just one of many who can see you. Coincidence?

And by the way, you once claimed that being "Dixie" had something to do with it. Other than I think it's a name more suiting for a woman, it has nothing to do with it. I knew a Dixie on a different site .. a woman .. a very conservative woman .. and I didn't call her a racist although others did. Some here on this site can attest to that. It isn't the name, it isn't because you're a conservative .. it's because you're a racist.
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Seems like you'd be able to find some examples of racist things I've said here, doesn't it?

I've told the story before about how "Dixie" came about. One of my dearest friends in high school was a black guy who was known for wearing a doo-rag resembling a Confederate battle flag. He took a LOT of guff for that... what's a black guy doing wearing such a symbol on his head? Well... he explained it to me once. He said, "It's the easiest way for me to discover who is a bigot and prejudiced and who isn't." People who immediately jumped to conclusions and started calling him names, he knew it was because they had made a judgement based on a stereotype, because they didn't know him, they just saw a symbol and reacted to it.

Years ago, I created a website for Alabama football fans, called "Dixie's Football Pride" ...this is a line in Alabama's fight song. I assumed the identity of Dixie, and posted weekly commentary on the upcoming games, etc. From there, I joined a political message board operated by another Alabama fan, and used "Dixie" mostly to promote my website. I discovered, like my friend from high school, that people would immediately rush to judgment about me, because of the moniker. The rest is history. I also have two ancestors who fought and died under the Confederate battle flag... they never owned slaves... didn't know anyone who did. They didn't go fight and die for slavery, they went because it's what you did... they were defending their homeland.

Sure, you know history. That's why I'm schooling you on the Founders. Ever heard of Thomas Paine?

Modern History Sourcebook: Thomas Paine: Of the Religion of Deism Compared with the Christian Religion
http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/mod/paine-deism.asp

What was that noise you were saying about Deism? Go educate yourself.
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You're not schooling me... you are schooling the imaginary entity in your head who is posting shit I never said!

I know what you say you believe .. which kinda' flies in the face of what you are. I was just pointing out the inconsistencies.
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What you keep pointing out is how you're not reading a goddamn thing I say or you're not comprehending it as presented. I'm not sure what your mental problem is, but this has gone on long enough. Either post what you think I've said that is racist, or stop claiming it.

As demonstrated, I know what the founding principles were better than you.
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Not demonstrated.

Save the dog whistle for your boyfriend.

You claim to know history, but you seem unaware of who the Founders even were. I was just educating you.
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You didn't educate me. You may have educated that imaginary entity in your head that is posting shit I never said.

I was pointing out what you seemed unaware of.
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No, you were trying to argue the Founding Fathers didn't believe in "fairy tales" like God. As it turns out, you and I, as well as the Deists, all believe pretty much the same thing, which is NOT a "fairy tale" or the idea there is no God. We're not Christians, but that doesn't mean we don't believe in God. Believing in "Nature's God" doesn't make us Christians. In fact, defending Christians against malicious attacks from those who seek to persecute them, also doesn't mean we are Christians or believe in Christianity.

I never once said Deists didn't believe in God .. I said they didn't believe in revealed religions, didn't believe in Christianity .. and this is where you entered the fray claiming otherwise.
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The only claims I made were, all the FFs weren't Deists, and they all believed in God to some degree. I did not say they were Christians, you railed on for several posts before admitting you were mistaken. Now you've apparently reverted back to the original contention that I argued this. Our nation was founded on the principle that all men are created equal, by a Creator, who endowed us with inalienable rights. There is no purpose or reason for Christianity or any other religion to be incorporated into a Constitution which guarantees religious freedom.
 
Thomas Edison said:
Well, that would be geographically incorrect, Damo, seeing as how the capital is Tel Aviv. :D
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Yet this is the sentence they removed, then replaced: "Jerusalem is and will remain the capital of Israel."

Tel Aviv is the financial center, Jerusalem is the most populated city and is the official capital of Israel.
 
Dixie said:
If 85% of the country were Atheist and didn't believe in God, then the Republicans might "be in a mess" by mentioning God 16 times in their platform while Democrats didn't mention God at all. But the fact is, 85% of the country believes in God, so there's that.
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I wonder if they're the same people who think professional wrestling is real?
 
tinfoil said:
I wonder if they're the same people who think professional wrestling is real?
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I'd like to see a 'kosher' survey done. Who designed the q'aire? What was the population? Where was the survey carried out? What, exactly, were the words in the question(s) that led to this conclusion?
eg: Would you rather have god or aids?
or It is known that if the republicans win they will kill the first born of non believers. You are not a non believer, are you?
etc etc.
 
jesus_didnt_ride_an_elephant_t_shirt_tshirt-p235952436327361693b7e6t_400.jpg
 
Thomas Edison said:
You mean the part where they signed their names in ink has no reference to Jesus?

http://www.usconstitution.net/xconst_Sigs.html
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Why would the Constitution refer to 'God'.....its a document clarifying HOW our government operates, the limits of government and our individual rights.....

Your post is as stupid as stating the God is not mentioned in Martha's cookbook so that must mean something .....

The Declaration and our Anthem does mention God....and the House and Senate of US opens EVERY day with a prayer to God.....whats you point....
 
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