Is being gay a choice?

Don Quixote said:
the issue of slavery started during the war for independence, northerners wanted it eliminated and southerners would not fight for independence without slavery being recognized

it was an issue that both the north and south knew would have to revisited eventually

ps there were anti-slavery societies before the revolutionary war and they continued to grow after the war
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America was founded by propertied men who excluded slaves, women, and Indians.

America was about money, there was righteous morality hovering over the south by the north over slavery but it was all about money and profit.

The north simply dumped slavery in favor of immigrant labor from Europe because they determined that slavery was no longer economically feasible and using cheap labor from Europe was. The influx of huge numbers of immigrants into the northern economy accommodated the North's growing industrial infrastructure and cheap wages were more able to increase profits than the slave labor system was.
 
philly rabbit said:
I said I don't know what causes homosexuality, I didn't say whether or not it was a choice.

I also said that you don't know what causes homosexuality either and you're advancing it under false pretenses and calling everybody who disagrees with you morally inferior and ignorant.

And I also said that the reason you wont admit that you don't know what causes it is because you have a radical agenda.
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"Cause" homosexuality? Your ignorance is incredible.
 
Howey said:
You're incredibly dense, Whiz Kid.

How do you explain twins being raised in different environments having remarkable similarities?

https://mctfr.psych.umn.edu/research/UM research.html
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So one case of twin similarity proves everything? Lets stick to homosexual studies, Howey. Also twin studies place between 30% and 70% correlation between genetics and enviornment. I'm glad this seals the for you though. Good to know a study of general coincidences unrelated to sexuality is proof homosexuality is genetic and completely not a choice in any way. Good to know that behaviors are not choices.



From this man's wiki

Twins reared apart [edit]
In 1979, Thomas Bouchard began to study twins who were separated at birth and reared in different families. He found that an identical twin reared away from his or her co-twin seems to have about an equal chance of being similar to the co-twin in terms of personality, interests, and attitudes as one who has been reared with his or her co-twin. This leads to the conclusion that the similarities between twins are due to genes, not environment, since the differences between twins reared apart must be due totally to the environment.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minnesota_Study_of_Identical_Twins_Reared_Apart

This is saying he found any similarities to be in general genetic while at the same time finding all dissimilarities to be environmental.


The men who made this list found all kinds of similarities as well . . .
http://www.cephas-library.com/mystery_coincidence.html


Hey look a twin study trying to find the homophobia gene :P

The aim of the present study was to determine the
contribution of genes and environment to individual differences
in attitudes toward homosexuality. Based on the
general ACE model, estimates of the influence of A
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http://web.ebscohost.com/ehost/pdfv...1-920f-2d84a6fd13ec@sessionmgr15&vid=2&hid=22

Despite the clearly enviornmental factors contributing to this study they still maintain a genetic link. Rofl.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twin_study#Criticism
This should help clarify the issues I have with twin studies
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biology_and_sexual_orientation#Twin_studies

I dont have time to babysit you, I still have finals due. However the linkage between twin studies and reality is always as subjective as animals studies at best and in addition those that were conducted could only at most claim up to a 70% correlation; never and genetic proof. The conclusions given by the articles themselves is always 'significant' or 'surprisingly', never complete. Thus genetics is not a deciding factor in any study conducted, and in some studies they go as far as admitting that.
 
philly rabbit said:
You're the one with the narrow little mind progressive.

My mind is open to all possibilities. Your mind is locked closed and in lock step with homosexual politics.

Your narcissistic snobbery and your morally superior attitudes don't present you as the know all of society either.

Homosexual politics is what is steering your wheel.
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You know...looking back...I know I already respired to this post...but I'd like to clarify something....you're a little fucking douche.

This THREAD is about whether gays are born that way or not. I stayed on fucking TOPIC. You're the one that's interjecting everything from slavery, the Civil War and other bullshit into this thread. So fuck you...it's not about me being "lockstep with homosexual politics", it's about discussing the topic of a thread.

And as far as my "narcissistic snobbery"? What's more narcissistic? A person standing up for the rights of a group of people who he has nothing in common with, or you vomiting bullshit Civil war/race related crap ad nauseum to keep YOUR Narcissistic self relevent on a thread topic on Gays? I'm no one's "moral superior"...That's why I refuse to judge...IMO, that's God's job.

I show a relevent scientific study that reveals physiological differences in the brain structure of gays and straight people. You couldn't refute that...so you attacked me personally and went on your never ending tirade about how the South was the victim in the Civil War.

So....before you start pointing fingers at others for "narcissism and morally superior attitudes....I'd suggest you gaze in the fucking mirror for a while.
 
Steelplate said:
You know...looking back...I know I already respired to this post...but I'd like to clarify something....you're a little fucking douche.

This THREAD is about whether gays are born that way or not. I stayed on fucking TOPIC. You're the one that's interjecting everything from slavery, the Civil War and other bullshit into this thread. So fuck you...it's not about me being "lockstep with homosexual politics", it's about discussing the topic of a thread.

And as far as my "narcissistic snobbery"? What's more narcissistic? A person standing up for the rights of a group of people who he has nothing in common with, or you vomiting bullshit Civil war/race related crap ad nauseum to keep YOUR Narcissistic self relevent on a thread topic on Gays? I'm no one's "moral superior"...That's why I refuse to judge...IMO, that's God's job.

I show a relevent scientific study that reveals physiological differences in the brain structure of gays and straight people. You couldn't refute that...so you attacked me personally and went on your never ending tirade about how the South was the victim in the Civil War.

So....before you start pointing fingers at others for "narcissism and morally superior attitudes....I'd suggest you gaze in the fucking mirror for a while.
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Wait a minute paly, I didn't inject the civil war and slavery into this thread, your associates did that in order to divert the topic to me, I didn't do that.

And you don't know any more about what causes it than anybody else does, you simply go with the theories that are more agreeable to your agenda which is why you just presented your social justice yarn.

If you want to argue for something, make sure you have facts to back it up and not just theories and political correctness.

I've been consistent throughout this entire bullshit homophobe outing thread that I only got involved with because of:

1. The topic starter .. who baited the forum with a numbskull question in order to allow geniuses like you to ascend to your social justice throne and begin your homophobe witch hunt.

2. The usual bullshit from your side calling everybody who disagrees with you homophobes and bigots.

3. And you personally with your narcissistic name calling and insults because I wont play ball with your whole phony PC agenda.

I'd suggest you find out what you're talking about if you want to prove the people who are on one side of an argument as being ignorant and bigoted and be prepared to back it up with facts. If you can't admit to throwing PC BS around and admitting that you really don't have the definite answer, that's on you, not me.
 
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philly rabbit said:
Wait a minute paly, I didn't inject the civil war and slavery into this thread, your associates did that in order to divert the topic to me, I didn't do that.

And you don't know any more about what causes it than anybody else does, you simply go with the theories that are more agreeable to your agenda which is why you just presented your social justice yarn.

If you want to argue for something, make sure you have facts to back it up and not just theories and political correctness.

I've been consistent throughout this entire bullshit homophobe outing thread that I only got involved with because of:

1. The topic starter .. who baited the forum with a numbskull question in order to allow geniuses like you to ascend to your social justice throne and begin your homophobe witch hunt.

2. The usual bullshit from your side calling everybody who disagrees with you homophobes and bigots.

3. And you personally with your narcissistic name calling and insults because I wont play ball with your whole phony PC agenda.

I'd suggest you find out what you're talking about if you want to prove the people who are on one side of an argument as being ignorant and bigoted and be prepared to back it up with facts. If you can't admit to throwing PC BS around and admitting that you really don't have the definite answer, that's on you, not me.
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The facts back me up, silly rabbit, you are the one that ignores new studies and data in favor of your homophobia, don't project on me.
 
philly rabbit said:
Wait a minute paly, I didn't inject the civil war and slavery into this thread, your associates did that in order to divert the topic to me, I didn't do that.

And you don't know any more about what causes it than anybody else does, you simply go with the theories that are more agreeable to your agenda which is why you just presented your social justice yarn.

If you want to argue for something, make sure you have facts to back it up and not just theories and political correctness.

I've been consistent throughout this entire bullshit homophobe outing thread that I only got involved with because of:

1. The topic starter .. who baited the forum with a numbskull question in order to allow geniuses like you to ascend to your social justice throne and begin your homophobe witch hunt.

2. The usual bullshit from your side calling everybody who disagrees with you homophobes and bigots.

3. And you personally with your narcissistic name calling and insults because I wont play ball with your whole phony PC agenda.

I'd suggest you find out what you're talking about if you want to prove the people who are on one side of an argument as being ignorant and bigoted and be prepared to back it up with facts. If you can't admit to throwing PC BS around and admitting that you really don't have the definite answer, that's on you, not me.
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Ummm...science is not "agenda supporting" you dumb fuck...explain the CONSISTENT Physiological differences between straight and gay brains. The issue is....YOU have your mind made up and no evidence will EVER be good enough for you to even think twice about it.

I don't give a shit if you're a homophobe or not....you can be against homosexuality all you want. But whether you agree with it or not is completely irrelevent to the idea of equal rights. That's an AMERICAN ideal....not a straight, gay, black, white, Christian, Muslim, Conservative, Liberal ideal....But an American one. And if you are willing to throw others under the bus because you don’t agree with them....then you are dead wrong. You are the one with the Narcissistic platform here, not me.

As far as the name calling? Grow the fuck up. You've displayed all kinds of racial, social, and orientational bigotry on this board that I've witnessed myself. You don't get to spout the shit you do and then play the victim. And once again....it is your right to be a bigot. But if you are going to be one....embrace it. Don't sit and whine when people call you out....you're an American....it's your right to be a bigot every bit as much as it is for Howey to be a gay activist, or me to be a pro-labor Democrat.
 
Rana said:
Research is new in this area and it is most unfortunate that you dismiss new research. Imagine if people did this with cancer research.
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New?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twin_study#History
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_human_experimentation

And I don't dismiss it, I scoff at this idea that it holds new untold and completely accurate results that are then paraded around in the new social movement for ____ ____. It has its place, and I don't see any good coming out of holding it above such a place.
 
Rana said:
The facts back me up, silly rabbit, you are the one that ignores new studies and data in favor of your homophobia, don't project on me.
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The Evil Professor Rana strikes again.

You don't have any facts backing you up .. you moron.

Everything you touch turns to helplessness and despair. You're nothing but an agenda driven, morally bankrupt feminist operative who burned all your human bridges behind you many years ago.
 
Rana said:
Bump for the silly rabbit
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I'll give you a bump.

You and your progressive playmates have to go. You had your turn at bat and you turned the whole country into a cess pool of collectivist socialism and division while at it.

This radical queer agenda of yours is just a part of your playbook but an important part because it divides and conquers or so you think it does because the fight to restore America's republic is far from over and only beginning at the grass roots.
 
Steelplate said:
Ummm...science is not "agenda supporting" you dumb fuck...explain the CONSISTENT Physiological differences between straight and gay brains. The issue is....YOU have your mind made up and no evidence will EVER be good enough for you to even think twice about it.

I don't give a shit if you're a homophobe or not....you can be against homosexuality all you want. But whether you agree with it or not is completely irrelevent to the idea of equal rights. That's an AMERICAN ideal....not a straight, gay, black, white, Christian, Muslim, Conservative, Liberal ideal....But an American one. And if you are willing to throw others under the bus because you don’t agree with them....then you are dead wrong. You are the one with the Narcissistic platform here, not me.

As far as the name calling? Grow the fuck up. You've displayed all kinds of racial, social, and orientational bigotry on this board that I've witnessed myself. You don't get to spout the shit you do and then play the victim. And once again....it is your right to be a bigot. But if you are going to be one....embrace it. Don't sit and whine when people call you out....you're an American....it's your right to be a bigot every bit as much as it is for Howey to be a gay activist, or me to be a pro-labor Democrat.
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You agenda driven little pizz ant.

I'm the one here calling for compromise. I'm the one here calling for calm and calling for understanding. And you're the one calling for fascist shout down tactics and division with your radical agenda designed to drive a wedge through American society.

You're the fuck*ng street corner honey boy before a university back drop without nothing but PC BS and lies motivating your whole queer junk wagon.


The last thing you want to hear is the word choice because choice indicates a lifestyle choice that can be changed and altered and that is something a little pizz ant progressive such as yourself will not tolerate.
 
For some, this is not a choice. For many others, this is a choice and for many others, this is a disastrous choice that was influenced and encouraged by the progressive radicals like the crew on this thread who are conducting their homophobe witch hunt. This agenda begins in the public school system which explains why lesbianism has been a major problem for young girls in both middle and high schools across the country. for those encouraged into this life style as a choice while being presented as an attractive alternative lifestyle with them being young and influential, it results in a lifetime of misery, despair, and mental illness and never results in any semblance of a normal life of marriage and children but often ends in suicide and lifetime drug dependency.


Honesty and understanding are cast aside by these pathetic radical queer pushers and the youthful populace of the country becomes expendable for the overall goal of ends-means justification.

And so what do we get if we can't find the ever elusive so-called gay gene? We now get brain waves and phony Evil Doctor Rana theory links but the one thing you will never get from these people is the word choice and an admission of not knowing what causes the condition. Those who have no choice and there are many out there should not be given absolute dominance over those who do have a choice and it should always be remembered that recruitment within the ranks of the country's youth is essential simply because these people do not pro create.
 
philly rabbit said:
You agenda driven little pizz ant.

I'm the one here calling for compromise. I'm the one here calling for calm and calling for understanding. And you're the one calling for fascist shout down tactics and division with your radical agenda designed to drive a wedge through American society.

You're the fuck*ng street corner honey boy before a university back drop without nothing but PC BS and lies motivating your whole queer junk wagon.


The last thing you want to hear is the word choice because choice indicates a lifestyle choice that can be changed and altered and that is something a little pizz ant progressive such as yourself will not tolerate.
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What's your compromise? Never saw one....not in this thread.

As for the rest? Typical blathering. But OK....let's explore choice for a second...what if it is a choice? Do people not have the right to choose? You see....even if it is a choice, it still doesn't change the fact that their rights are being trampled on. But once again....you only want to hear about rights if it involves shit you're OK with.
 
The separation of sexuality from procreation entails its freedom from heterosexuality and its emergence as an individual attribute, something individuals can develop, enjoy, change or project as part of their changing definition of the self. Sexuality becomes plastic because the self itself has broken the bounds of traditional institutional expectations and it is now free to constitute and reconstitute itself in a series of narratives answering to nothing else but the growing freedom of individuals to develop their potential
http://www.colorado.edu/Sociology/gimenez/work/GIDDENS.TXT
 
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