Well he is saying its not 100% random because if you dont have sex... you wont get pregnant...
Would it have been okay then for Mary to have aborted Jesus given that the pregnancy was imaculate?
Islam is the Religion of Pinheads!
- Thread starter Dixie - In Memoriam
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Well he is saying its not 100% random because if you dont have sex... you wont get pregnant...
Would it have been okay then for Mary to have aborted Jesus given that the pregnancy was imaculate?
maineman
Banned
ah you know the response to that....she was probably dressing provacatively and had it coming
Dixie - In Memoriam
New member
Please provide me the Biblical quote that states that embryos have souls.
I already provided you with the scriptures.
"the body apart from the spirit is dead" (Jas. 2:26)
Meaning, literally, without a soul, you are dead. A fetus is living, so it must have a soul as well.
And please answer the question about YOUR frozen embryos in a burning fertility clinic.
And I have answered this one as well.
When are you going to answer MY question? When does God give you a soul, if not at the point of conception?
I already provided you with the scriptures.
"the body apart from the spirit is dead" (Jas. 2:26)
Meaning, literally, without a soul, you are dead. A fetus is living, so it must have a soul as well.
And please answer the question about YOUR frozen embryos in a burning fertility clinic.
And I have answered this one as well.
When are you going to answer MY question? When does God give you a soul, if not at the point of conception?
Dixie - In Memoriam
New member
Really? So, you think women just randomly become pregnant? Perhaps a nice sex education course is in order?
You are not using sound basic reasoning Einstein. Just because something is true does not mean the converse is true!
Obviously, she should be forced to keep it and give birth, by government decree.
Dixie makes no distinction: It a human life that has a soul at the moment of conception. A "life" every bit as worthy as anyone else's. It's not the child's fault the rape happened.
maineman
Banned
I love how you interpretation of scripture somehow becomes literal fact.
And when God gives a fetus a soul is certainly something I would not begin to presume to know. I see no reason to suggest that he is bound by any set time frame for that action. For all we know, he gives a fetus a soul at the six month time frame. Do you have some communication from God which states uniquivocally that he always gives embryos a soul at the moment of conception?
You have not answered the question honestly. You said that you would mourn the loss of your frozen embryo thawed and then toasted in the fire as deeply as you would the death of your own daughter. And we both know that is intellectualy dishonest.
And when God gives a fetus a soul is certainly something I would not begin to presume to know. I see no reason to suggest that he is bound by any set time frame for that action. For all we know, he gives a fetus a soul at the six month time frame. Do you have some communication from God which states uniquivocally that he always gives embryos a soul at the moment of conception?
You have not answered the question honestly. You said that you would mourn the loss of your frozen embryo thawed and then toasted in the fire as deeply as you would the death of your own daughter. And we both know that is intellectualy dishonest.
MM: And please answer the question about YOUR frozen embryos in a burning fertility clinic.
Dixie: And I have answered this one as well.
No you haven't.
I'm reasonably sure you would run through fire and flame to rescue your teenage daughter from a burning house.
Would you run through fire and flame, to save your embryo in a petri dish, in a burning fertility clinic?
Still not random, and how is rape the fault of the child. Once again, you take unique circumstances and attempt to make them fit. They do not.
If you truly believed that this was a child, how could you actually say that it was okay to make the child pay the ultimate price for the actions of his father?
I achually respect that stance more than the exception because if you make the exception you are admiting that there are exceptions that make it okay to "kill" the embryo. If your argument is that abortion should be banned because it is killing a child.. why should rape matter?
If your argument is that abortion should be banned because these women knew pregnancy was a possability and they should be punished for being promiscuious then you should make an exception for rape.
uscitizen
Villified User
Not random, well I am sure you know exactly which sperm will do the fertilization right ? Sex education was not avil to me in school, the Christofascists had kept it out. but it still appears that I know more than you do.
You see, It would not be an issue of making someone pay a price to me, it would be an issue of what the government should be allowed to legislate. I dont see it as a fault based issue.
If you can pretend that it was a black and white issue and the embryo is a CHILD... thats a big if... but if you could, then the argument becomes if the government has a right to force a woman to lend her body to that child for 9 months with all the risks and complications a pregnancy requires....
maineman
Banned
Therein may lie the fallacy in our approach. Given his cowardly chickenhawk/fighting keyboardist mentality, I do not think it is all that unreasonable to imagine that Dixie would cower outside a burning house even if his daughter was screaming from inside....so saving an embryo is, of course, out of the question. I think it may be safer to assume that the only person Dixie would go to extraordinary means to save from a burning house fire would be himself.
After solemn pronouncements that "life" begins at conception, abortion is "murder", and every embryo has a "soul", most anti-choice wingnuts will backpedal away from the rape case. And make an exception for it.
But, there are numerous other examples, that have not been addressed.
What if it turns out the fetus doesn't develop a brain? What if it doesn't have a spine? What if it has other catastrophic medical abnormalities?
Should the government still force the woman to give birth?
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Dixie - In Memoriam
New member
Dixie makes no distinction: It a human life that has a soul at the moment of conception. A "life" every bit as worthy as anyone else's. It's not the child's fault the rape happened.
This is true. Many people who oppose abortion, also oppose it in the case of rape or incest. I personally don't believe in abortion under any circumstance, but I am willing to allow 'free will' for people in our society who became pregnant through no choice of their own, and allow the law to permit women who have been raped, to get an abortion, if that is what they so decide. It's as far as I can possibly go, as a Christian, to allow the intentional and malicious taking of innocent life, and I struggle with that.
From my perspective, and maybe this is a poor analogy, but you could liken it to a person going to a buffet and filling their plate with food, then not eating it, as opposed to a person going to a restaurant and being served a heaping plate of food they didn't order. In one instance, it is justified that the person can waste the food, in the other, it's not. I have no idea of how God would judge someone who had an abortion after rape, that is not my place. I do know how God views the malicious taking of innocent life, he is very clear on that one. I also know it's my duty as a Christian, to speak out against it, and denounce it a sin against God, which indeed, it is.
This is true. Many people who oppose abortion, also oppose it in the case of rape or incest. I personally don't believe in abortion under any circumstance, but I am willing to allow 'free will' for people in our society who became pregnant through no choice of their own, and allow the law to permit women who have been raped, to get an abortion, if that is what they so decide. It's as far as I can possibly go, as a Christian, to allow the intentional and malicious taking of innocent life, and I struggle with that.
From my perspective, and maybe this is a poor analogy, but you could liken it to a person going to a buffet and filling their plate with food, then not eating it, as opposed to a person going to a restaurant and being served a heaping plate of food they didn't order. In one instance, it is justified that the person can waste the food, in the other, it's not. I have no idea of how God would judge someone who had an abortion after rape, that is not my place. I do know how God views the malicious taking of innocent life, he is very clear on that one. I also know it's my duty as a Christian, to speak out against it, and denounce it a sin against God, which indeed, it is.
uscitizen
Villified User
Your first duty as a christian is to do the best you can to live life like Christ taught you.
Yep christ sure told people to overthrow the romans and such did he not ?
No, you could argue that taking action specifically to kill the embryo would be wrong. We both know that I believe that there is a different action that could be taken that respects both the woman and the child's rights. Abortion is not the only option, and does not progress science at all. Women must either choose to kill or to be an incubator, there is no real option in reproduction that actually allows them a true choice.
Nope. However, directed action to kill the fetus could be outlawed and still leave a choice. Abortion could be ended and still allow women the choice of incubation or to lend the fetus to the new science of attempted ex-utero incubation. Thus allowing for both the child's and the mother's rights.