It's dangerous following Liberals

[Banned]

Couple that with the fact that we are the only country who views healthcare as a for profit business venture.

We saddle business with the burden of supplying hc to employees (which ultimately comes out of taxpayer dollars). That puts us at a disadvantage when competing with other countries for jobs.

Fewer and fewer employers are providing health care insurance.

 

[mephistopheles]

Throughout the history of liberal socialist statism, there have been many hapless victims. Sucked in to the rhetoric, mesmerized by the prophets, brainwashed into believing in Utopia. I suppose it's not really a surprise, it's human nature for mankind to course the path of least resistance, and it's easier to believe in a Utopian dream world than to accept reality. What's wrong with dreaming we can someday feed all the hungry and heal all the sick? Well, it's dangerous, that's what.

We can look to history, and find example after example, of the liberal socialist statist philosophy being attempted, in a number of different variations-- Maoism in China, Marxism in Russia, Nazism in Germany, and assorted offshoots from rogues like Pol Pot and Qaddafi to regime dynasties like Castro and Saddam Hussein. None of the examples end well for the people. It would be great if there were a good example, then the liberal socialist statists could manage to print t-shirts with someone other than Che Guevara.

The struggle against the liberal socialist statist mentality in our own country, has been going on for years. Libs love to quote Hamilton, and perhaps Hamilton was one of the country's first pinheads. Most of his statist ideas were fundamentally rejected by Madison, Jefferson, and Washington, but important to history, because they presented the perfect platform to juxtapose the new ideas of freedom and liberty. Of course, lazy asses today will not bother reading the Federalist Papers, to understand this, they will accept the Liberals quoting Hamilton, as if his words were some sort of principled ideas of our founding fathers. The "general welfare" clause is a good example. Hamilton believed, like many liberal socialist statists, that "general welfare" was sort of a 'carte blanc' for government to assume responsibility regarding any aspect of our general welfare. Madison brilliantly pointed out, that is precisely why "general welfare" can't be interpreted that way, it would render the Constitution meaningless and grant unlimited power to the central government. If you follow the Hamiltonian philosophy, the end result is not good for the people. It eventually replaces personal freedom with central government power, which has never worked out well for the average Joe.

Still, we have people in history like Adams, who have entertained some notion of a "middle ground" between founding principles and statist nonsense. We've always had a certain segment who are not totally on board with the liberal socialist statists, but apparently dislike confrontation so much, they are willing to abandon their own principles to try and "get along" with them. This is where we find the most evidence of how dangerous it is to follow Liberals. A most recent example is the Pill Bill, signed into law by Compassionate Conservative, George W. Bush. Libs throw the 'crisis' out there... poor old people can't buy their medicine! They continue to protest and scream, and cry and plead, and nag and pester, until someone who should know better, says... OKAY! OKAY! Maybe we can do something to help the poor old people buy their medicine! *poof* we get the Pill Bill. What happened next? Problem solved? Hardly! Libs moved on to nationalized health care. Look what happened with FDR? We went along with his liberal socialist statist principles because we were desperate, and created an entitlement class. Was the New Deal it? Did it fix all our problems? Oh no! Was LBJ's Great Society enough? Nope! Still not there yet. Since then, Libs have pressed on, with more an more departments and more and more government.

You see, when you follow a Liberal, the road to Utopia never ends. The world has an endless supply of people suffering, the planet produces new crisis everyday. The planet is never going to have enough people or resources to adequately accommodate all inhabitants at all times everywhere. There will forever and always be, some people who have more than others, and some people who have very little or nothing. This is what is commonly referred to as "a fact of life." We should all be aware of this, and it should be obvious it's a problem we can't ever solve, but for some reason, it is easier to believe in Liberal Utopia....Nirvana!

It's dangerous following ANYONE. Just makes the follower a sheep.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

Programs that could and should offer many more times the help and support required.

Apple again demonstrates why it's dangerous to follow a liberal. You see, whatever we do, it's never enough. Most of us understand, it is just not possible to provide cradle to grave care for every individual on the planet, we simply don't have enough rich people to do that. Liberals don't understand this, in the world of Liberal Utopia, that is not only possible, but by God they will destroy the country trying to get there! If you are somehow lulled into going along with them, for whatever reason, maybe you just got tired of the whining? Or maybe you have a touch of liberal inside you, but whatever reason... if you ever follow the liberal, you are doomed. We can raise the tax on high income earners by 20%...wow, that should be PLENTY, right? Nope, as soon as the ink is dry on that legislation, they will already be ramping up the next wave of attacks, as if the increase never happened. It's the same with health care, we could literally find some way to insure every person in the country, and Apple would immediately shift to the level of coverage, the availability to the poor isn't the same... facilities aren't equal.... too much time waiting at the doctors office... what about prescription co-pays being more affordable? You see, there is always a new plateau for the liberal to achieve, no matter how much we do to appease them. In fact, our appeasements very often serve to enable them, and lend a sense of legitimacy to their points. It's dangerous following a liberal.

 

[USFREEDOM911]

Your friend is the exception. Take the average 50 year old. Are they going to risk their retirement funds on a new business? Maybe someone under 40 may take a chance but maybe not.

How appropriate that he just turned 50.

As for my window experience I told you we withheld 10% becaue we know "small business".

Then why do you keep whining about it?

Considering this love affair you and others have with small business when you purchase a new car do you go to a dealer or purchase it from a lot that has a temporary trailer set up? When you purchase new appliances do you go to a well known store or some "small business" selling appliances? Have you ever tried to return something to a "small business"? Purchases at Costco can be returned for ANY reason.

Depends on if I'm looking for new or used and yes, I have returned things to a small business. The fact that you don't bother to check things out, before spending your money, is stupidity on your part and no Government should be required to protect yourself from stupidity.

The vast majority of people who champion small business are people who own a small business or hope to own one. Regarding the "trades" small business may offer lower prices than, say, a tradesman obtained through Sears. However, if there is a problem one quickly finds out why the difference in price. While not all small businesses are owned/run by lazy, thieving scoundrels if one is all they have to do is declare bankruptcy and the customer is screwed.

Maybe in Kanada it's the way you describe; but then, I have no stake in how Kanadians treat themselves.

If people want to repatriate their money let them pay the tax on it. We can wait or do without the opening of a small business. I can't think of any dire need for a service/product that's lacking and requiring a small business to supply. Can you?

You just admitted to being a supporter of BIG BUSINESS. What a rube you are.

 

[USFREEDOM911]

They folded because the owner couldn't run a business. Either he had a product or service no one wanted or he charged too much for the product/service and no one was interested.

99.9999999% of people go into business for one reason; money. Whether they're a plumber or a programmer they work for a company, see the boss making good $$$ and say to themselves, "Why not me?" What they can't grasp is not everyone can run a business. So the answer to "Why not me" is "Because you don't know how."

Where do all these people get off thinking they can run a business? It takes a lot more than just knowing how to do a certain job. One has to be aware of various laws. They have to have sales experience. They have to be able to interact with government oversight. Basic financial experience. Motivating employees.....the list goes on.

There needs to be more government involvement before one starts a business. It would certainly lessen the bankruptcy rate and put an end to a lot of scams. The majority of small businesses fail within 5 years and someone pays for that. A lot of them get tax breaks or grants or subsidies which the tax payer paid for. The point being businesses are started when the only reason is for someone to make money. The product/service is not in great demand and, in many cases, is not demanded at all.

In today's society there is a disconnect between a job and the fact one requires money but that's for another thread.

You're a myopic idiot.
This discussion started off about the purchase of a yacht and it was revealed that the GOVERNMENT raised the taxes on the yachts so much that the complanies folded.
Now you want to blame it on that no one wanted them.
Then you want to meander off into your own little diatribe, again.

How do you explain all the people who imigrate to this country, with nothing, and years later they are successful business men?


You are so myopic, that it's pitiful.

 

[USFREEDOM911]

You're the one who's talking in circles.

If you call keeping the conversation on the same track, as talking in circles, then it's apparent that you're the one who's making yourself dizzy.

 

[USFREEDOM911]

How could he possibly do that, with the taxation issue you keep referring to?

He doesn't build Yachts.

 

[Phantasmal]

Apple again demonstrates why it's dangerous to follow a liberal. You see, whatever we do, it's never enough. Most of us understand, it is just not possible to provide cradle to grave care for every individual on the planet, we simply don't have enough rich people to do that. Liberals don't understand this, in the world of Liberal Utopia, that is not only possible, but by God they will destroy the country trying to get there! If you are somehow lulled into going along with them, for whatever reason, maybe you just got tired of the whining? Or maybe you have a touch of liberal inside you, but whatever reason... if you ever follow the liberal, you are doomed. We can raise the tax on high income earners by 20%...wow, that should be PLENTY, right? Nope, as soon as the ink is dry on that legislation, they will already be ramping up the next wave of attacks, as if the increase never happened. It's the same with health care, we could literally find some way to insure every person in the country, and Apple would immediately shift to the level of coverage, the availability to the poor isn't the same... facilities aren't equal.... too much time waiting at the doctors office... what about prescription co-pays being more affordable? You see, there is always a new plateau for the liberal to achieve, no matter how much we do to appease them. In fact, our appeasements very often serve to enable them, and lend a sense of legitimacy to their points. It's dangerous following a liberal.

So just kill 'em, huh Dix. Drop bombs on them, put them down when they are old and useless. They only matter when they are feti!

 

[apple0154]

Apple again demonstrates why it's dangerous to follow a liberal. You see, whatever we do, it's never enough. Most of us understand, it is just not possible to provide cradle to grave care for every individual on the planet, we simply don't have enough rich people to do that.

Every individual on the planet? Cradle to grave? How about just the poor in the US and for a sufficient time for them to get on their feet? That's a lot fewer and a lot less time.

Sometimes, Dix, you disappoint me.

/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Apple again demonstrates why it's dangerous to follow a liberal. You see, whatever we do, it's never enough. Most of us understand, it is just not possible to provide cradle to grave care for every individual on the planet, we simply don't have enough rich people to do that. Liberals don't understand this, in the world of Liberal Utopia, that is not only possible, but by God they will destroy the country trying to get there! If you are somehow lulled into going along with them, for whatever reason, maybe you just got tired of the whining? Or maybe you have a touch of liberal inside you, but whatever reason... if you ever follow the liberal, you are doomed. We can raise the tax on high income earners by 20%...wow, that should be PLENTY, right? Nope, as soon as the ink is dry on that legislation, they will already be ramping up the next wave of attacks, as if the increase never happened. It's the same with health care, we could literally find some way to insure every person in the country, and Apple would immediately shift to the level of coverage, the availability to the poor isn't the same... facilities aren't equal.... too much time waiting at the doctors office... what about prescription co-pays being more affordable? You see, there is always a new plateau for the liberal to achieve, no matter how much we do to appease them. In fact, our appeasements very often serve to enable them, and lend a sense of legitimacy to their points. It's dangerous following a liberal.

 

[apple0154]

You just admitted to being a supporter of BIG BUSINESS. What a rube you are.

I prefer big business to small business almost any day of the week. The only exception I can think of is the guy who does the bodywork/paint on my cars. He's a lot cheaper than going to a dealer and having it done. For example, the Mrs. had a hit and run. GM wanted 3 grand for the repair. Basically a tail light and a piece of the rear fender. The body guy did it for under $800.00.

How appropriate that he just turned 50.

As for turning 50 I wish I was 50 again but those days are long gone.

 

[apple0154]

You're a myopic idiot.
This discussion started off about the purchase of a yacht and it was revealed that the GOVERNMENT raised the taxes on the yachts so much that the complanies folded.
Now you want to blame it on that no one wanted them.
Then you want to meander off into your own little diatribe, again.

How do you explain all the people who imigrate to this country, with nothing, and years later they are successful business men?


You are so myopic, that it's pitiful.

Let me tell you about some of those "poor" immigrants. Every once in a while illegal immigrants are caught. Maybe in a boat. Maybe in the back of a truck. A while later the whole story breaks and it's discovered those "poor" folks paid 10 or 15 thousand US dollars to get here. Coming from a country where the annual wage is, maybe, $3,000/yr how the hell did they get 10 or 15 thousand dollars to pay the human traffickers?

Then there are government loans and grants. Again, how does a "poor" immigrant buy a corner store or a laundry mat? I've met immigrants who have been here two years and have bought such businesses. People who can barely speak English. And I've seen those same businesses fold up in a year or two. Who took the loss? The "poor" guy? He had no money, so they say. In that case it must have been the government who loaned them money or gave them a grant which they do.

I may be myopic but you're extremely naive.

 

[apple0154]

He doesn't build Yachts.

(USF Msg #145)This discussion started off about the purchase of a yacht and it was revealed that the GOVERNMENT raised the taxes on the yachts so much that the complanies folded. [/QUOTE]

Excellent! You discovered the solution.

 

[signalmankenneth]

It's dangerous following Liberals?!!

What the hell is dangerous about this???

 

[Althea]

He doesn't build Yachts.

I see. So a company that caters to the ultra wealthy went under, and you now use that as a measure of how every business will suffer?

 

[Althea]

You should try reading the entire thread, instead of just the last few posts; because Bravo has already said he would probably start up a business, which would mean he would hire employess, and then (since he's essentially lazy) he would probably end up hiring someone to run the business.
NOW; multiply that by hundreds, if not thousands, of people in the same situation.

And you should try reading the links that prove Bravo's assertion wrong.

The last time Bush allowed a tax holiday on repatriated money, no jobs were created.

 

[USFREEDOM911]

I prefer big business to small business almost any day of the week. The only exception I can think of is the guy who does the bodywork/paint on my cars. He's a lot cheaper than going to a dealer and having it done. For example, the Mrs. had a hit and run. GM wanted 3 grand for the repair. Basically a tail light and a piece of the rear fender. The body guy did it for under $800.00.



As for turning 50 I wish I was 50 again but those days are long gone.

Does he have an LLC?

 

[USFREEDOM911]

Let me tell you about some of those "poor" immigrants. Every once in a while illegal immigrants are caught. Maybe in a boat. Maybe in the back of a truck. A while later the whole story breaks and it's discovered those "poor" folks paid 10 or 15 thousand US dollars to get here. Coming from a country where the annual wage is, maybe, $3,000/yr how the hell did they get 10 or 15 thousand dollars to pay the human traffickers?

Then there are government loans and grants. Again, how does a "poor" immigrant buy a corner store or a laundry mat? I've met immigrants who have been here two years and have bought such businesses. People who can barely speak English. And I've seen those same businesses fold up in a year or two. Who took the loss? The "poor" guy? He had no money, so they say. In that case it must have been the government who loaned them money or gave them a grant which they do.

I may be myopic but you're extremely naive.

I see that your narrow view and short sightedness didn't allow you to comprehend and then address what was posted; but instead your selective reading and thinking created a situation for you to address, that wasn't part of the post.


When you get your eyes checked, have them test for a connection to your cognitive thinking center.

 

[USFREEDOM911]

(USF Msg #145)This discussion started off about the purchase of a yacht and it was revealed that the GOVERNMENT raised the taxes on the yachts so much that the complanies folded.

Excellent! You discovered the solution. [/QUOTE]

So you admit that building Yachts in the US is unprofitable; because of the taxes levied against them.

 

[USFREEDOM911]

I see. So a company that caters to the ultra wealthy went under, and you now use that as a measure of how every business will suffer?

Instead of jumping on the anti-profit bandwagon, why don't you offer what the solution to this should have been?
That is; unless you just intend to bitch and moan about it.

 

[Althea]

Instead of jumping on the anti-profit bandwagon, why don't you offer what the solution to this should have been?
That is; unless you just intend to bitch and moan about it.

The solution, would've been to tax the ultra wealthy on income/investments. Top marginal rates when Bush signed the yacht tax, were 28-31%.

The tax wasn't on the builders of the yachts, as was erroneously offered by your tag team partner. It was a surcharge on the purchase of any boat over 100k. The ultra wealthy could certainly afford the extra few grand. They just found a way to skirt the tax.

Of course, there are/were various tax loopholes that allow these owners to deduct their yachts as second homes, so all the whining is nonsense.

Blame the unpatriotic millionaires for the failure of the industry. Although, I saw no sense at the time that Bush signed the law. He should've just ignored his promise for 'no new taxes', and raised marginal rates.