Maybe we should call it "Fox News" instead of Iran?
- Thread starter Dixie - In Memoriam
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You're mischaracterizing, because you've become unhinged. No one is "ashamed" of being with freedom & democracy; as a nation, both the people and our admin have spoken supportively of both concepts in this situation, and have condemned in strong terms the violence & crackdown.
I don't even think you know what you want them to say. Is it, "We will not recognize the current regime in Iran as legitimate, and stand 100% with the protest movement?" That would be such bad foreign policy, on so many levels. Most of all, it would be bad for the protesters.
Like I have said, this is exactly what our enemies want us to do, and like a willing rube, you'd like to step right into it. It's amazing.
Dixie - In Memoriam
New member
I WANT Democracy dammit! Apparently, some of you are too ashamed of it or too afraid to admit you support it! You just keep going out of your way to not mention it, so as to not offend the tyrant regime in Iran. It's almost like Obama has put so much stock in this notion that he is going to just sit down with President Leisure Suit and work things out, that he can't possibly support anti-radical pro-democracy movements which might upset that scenario!
And I want to take this opportunity to thwack the so-called "moderates" out there... Damo wants to claim that speaking forcefully could be "problematic" for us... that's just wonderful! I can sort of understand why ant-war anti-military pinhead liberals don't want to do anything tough, but when moderates don't feel compelled to stand up for freedom and democracy, that says a lot about what's really wrong in America and how far we've moved to the left.
Every one of you should be ashamed!
Let's point out the discrepancies. I support Democracy in Iran and believe that the American people should speak constantly about how much we support it. I just think that Obama should shut up about it.
The moment it appears as if they are supplied or supported by the US government the hardline Theocratic Dictatorship will use it as an excuse to "crack down" on the "incursion". The slaughter of those disarmed people would not be worth it. Speak, support, if you can help get the word out, but don't expect the government to set the charge and apply the fire that sets off Iran's Tienanmen square.
Dixie - In Memoriam
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I just asked you to explain your logic! You claim that speaking up for freedom and liberty and condemning oppression and tyranny is somehow "helping" their cause... but HOW? And HOW is it any different than what is going to happen REGARDLESS of our actions? I also want to know, if speaking up for freedom and liberty is helpful to their cause, then abject silence and indifference is hurting them... but HOW? Please explain this idiocy to me, because it doesn't make one lick of sense.
Every word we utter that is not a complete condemnation of this illegitimate tyrant regime, is in fact, an endorsement, acceptance, and legitimizing OF the regime! How does THAT help us in ANY way? How is THAT going to foster freedom and democracy or help the Iranian people to gain it? Please explain your idiotic insane logic to me, so we can see how truly retarded you are!
Like I said - you're unhinged.
Do you read? I mean, seriously - have you read anything about the politics of this situation? Have you read what foreign policy wonks on both the right & left have to say?
The fact that you can't comprehend at all what it would mean to Iran's current regime to have Obama do what you suggest speaks volumes. You act like it's some "radical, unfounded idea," but in fact, it's conventional wisdom in the foreign policy community.
What you have failed to do is provide an adequate benefit for giving the admin in Iran such a gift. You act like it will change the world, and lift the protesters to victory.
In fact, it's nothing to you. It's just your rail against Obama du jour...
Do you read? I mean, seriously - have you read anything about the politics of this situation? Have you read what foreign policy wonks on both the right & left have to say?
The fact that you can't comprehend at all what it would mean to Iran's current regime to have Obama do what you suggest speaks volumes. You act like it's some "radical, unfounded idea," but in fact, it's conventional wisdom in the foreign policy community.
What you have failed to do is provide an adequate benefit for giving the admin in Iran such a gift. You act like it will change the world, and lift the protesters to victory.
In fact, it's nothing to you. It's just your rail against Obama du jour...
Whomever
uscitizen alternate login
I do not support pushing democracy down someones throat at the muzzle of a gun. Iraq, Afganistan and Lebanon have worked out so well haven't they?
Our version of capitalistic christian based democracy does not work for all.
Heck it does not work too darned good for us.
Dixie - In Memoriam
New member
And WHY do you think he should shut up supporting freedom and democracy (btw, this hasn't happened the first time yet, we're still waiting!)
Damo, it fucking doesn't matter what the US does! Your logic is as fucked up as the liberals! Is there some guarantee I am unaware of, which says the tyrant regime is going to ultimately allow the will of the people to prevail, if we stay out of it? If our actions cause the nutbags to start committing genocide on their own people, don't you think we could muster some international condemnation for that, and maybe justify taking the punk ass out? Is that what scares you? That we might actually have to roll up our sleeves and do the dirty work? Well guess fucking what Damo, one way or the other, that is going to ultimately be the case! Eventually crazy people have to be dealt with!
I think you have to stand up for democracy and freedom, regardless of what the consequences might be! Stand up for what is right! Don't sit on your hands and make excuses for why it's better to not support freedom and democracy at this time, that is a losing strategy and history has proven this to be so.
I'm waiting for the loudmouths with nothing to lose to articulate the bush response to China following Tienenmen Square, then spell out the words Obama should use to satisfy their ignorance.
How's about "Bomb-Bomb-Bomb, Bomb-Bomb Iran" for starters? Ooops, that's been used. Certainly you must know what your heroes would have said in response to the situation if it was up to them.
I wonder if your selective recall allows you to remember when, prior to the Iran election 5 years ago, bush publicly chose his preferred candidate and thus aided Ahminijad's election. Obama is wise enough NOT to place himself in the middle, making himself or the US a part of the issue. There is a differencee between diplomacy and Wild West bravado.
Dixie - In Memoriam
New member
You fucking nit wit! Go look at the videos of the people protesting in the streets of Iran! These people are NOT being forced to do so at gunpoint! They are there of their own volition, without so much as an inkling of support from the Obama administration!
Humans naturally desire freedom! Try to get that through your pinhead! It doesn't matter what their cultural or religious background is, by-and-large, they want FREEDOM! In some parts of the world, it is not something taken for granted like it is here, it is virtually unknown and not allowed by the tyrant regimes in power.
Currently, almost all of the middle east is controlled by religious zealots who do not allow or condone freedom. It is in THAT strict fundamentalist ideology that Islamic Jihad is born and flourishes. I will agree, there is no way to defeat that ideology with guns! That is precisely why we must instill freedom and democracy, as a counter-ideology to replace radical Islam. It is only through the realization of freedom and liberty from oppression, that hearts and minds can be changed. And honestly, democracy and freedom are the only tools we have in the toolbox to defeat radical Islam. If that doesn't prevail, radical Islam will consume the middle east, then Europe, then the world, it's just a matter of time.
Whomever
uscitizen alternate login
Enough of the people in a country must realize this and give up their theocratic ways to pursue democracy and freedom that will last.
On that note, just go listen to Hagee hatred speeches some more.
We also must give up our theocratic ways in order to have more freedom.
On that note, just go listen to Hagee hatred speeches some more.
We also must give up our theocratic ways in order to have more freedom.
Dixie - In Memoriam
New member
MILLIONS have taken to the streets in Iran, risking DEATH to protest for fair and open democratic elections! We have no idea what % of the people actually support reform and democracy, the entire election was fraudulent and tainted. I don't listen to Hagee, don't even really know who that is. I am speaking up for DEMOCRACY and FREEDOM here, why do you try to insinuate that is "hate speech?"
maineman
Banned
do we KNOW that the election results are inaccurate? did we have any international observers there to confirm this?
what would you really have the president DO or SAY at this point beyond what he has already said and done?
Do you want us to send in troops?
Whomever
uscitizen alternate login
And how many protestors have been killed? Less than in auto acidents in the USA in the same time frame?
Sounds like progress has been made in Iran to me.
I think more have been killed in democratic Iraq in the same time frame.
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Because I think the crackdown would end the uprising in its early stages and doom them to a longer period in the modern Muslim dark ages.
As I said, the people would appreciate the support of the people in the US, and we should give it. However I believe that this early in the game it is best that our government show restraint in order to deter an early stronger crackdown fueled by the "justification" of foreign "incursion".
It really has nothing to do with "crazy people", it has everything to do with giving those people the best chance to overthrow the yoke of brutal oppression without the negative impact of "justified crackdown" that would happen if the US or Israel stuck their hands into this powder keg.
It isn't a question of whether to support freedom and democracy, it is the knowledge that freedom comes at the price of conflict and and that we should work towards the best time when the US government can step in with support without wreaking havoc on the early stages and ending early the conflict that will bring them freedom.
Give them a chance to do what is necessary to gain their freedom, stepping in too early will only endanger them.
Dixie - In Memoriam
New member
We don't know how many have been killed! All foreign media has been sent packing, and the Iranian media is controlled by the state! Yeah... progress is being made killing the voice of dissent, that is for sure!
Whomever
uscitizen alternate login
We also still do not know how many were killed in the name of democracy in Iraq.
Democracy and elimination of theocratic governments do not happen over night.
We are still working on the theocratic part of our government.