Maybe we should call it "Fox News" instead of Iran?

Dixie said:
I live on the planet where logic says, if you don't stand up to tyranny and oppression it will rule the day, and if you don't encourage and support freedom and liberty, it will not prevail. You live on the planet where logic dictates we must appease tyrant regimes so The Obama can show the world how cordial he is, and usher in a new age of American diplomacy. If that means throwing freedom and liberty under the bus, it's not a problem on your planet!
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I live on the planet where if you don't plan and do things right then people die by the truckloads and nothing is accomplished.

Standing up to tyranny does not mean one must deny history and reality.
 
So now Limbaugh and Fox News with their combined history of lies and distortions...are on par with the Iran and it's current crisis.

Talk about delusions of grandeur.

Someone should wake these stupid fucks up to reality....when Fox Noise and Limbaugh take the President's words out of context, distort them, misrepresent them and lie about them....they are doing it to get their listeners to vote a specific way while financially support them.

When the Iranian gov't does the same, they are doing so to get their supporters to condone murder and oppression of a large segment of their population.

BIG DIFFERENCE.....but the defeated neocon GOP and their neocon parrots and pundits cannot see this and to a great degree don't care to see. Their agenda (discredit Obama, perserve the false legacy of the last 8 years, continue the PNAC agenda, etc.) is all that matters....so much more to pity them.
 
belme1201 said:
STILL waiting to hear what you and The Supreme Leader would have Obama say, in your own words please. Also, for comparison's sake, please clue us in on what the bush reaction was to the Tienenmen Square uprising. Certainly, since you are so vociferous about Obama's mishandling of Iran, you would be able to further your point by enlightening those of us here with your balanced comparison of right(bush) and wrong(Obama) in similar situations.
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Neither he or McCain or Gingrich or Hannity or any of that ilk will give you an honest answer. And if they ever do, they don't won't to discuss the possible ramifications of their answers.
 
Damocles said:
I live on the planet where if you don't plan and do things right then people die by the truckloads and nothing is accomplished.

Standing up to tyranny does not mean one must deny history and reality.
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But you have failed to articulate what you hope to accomplish. Success for the people of Iran is not going to happen with no outside support or encouragement, and passively allowing the tyrant regime to silence dissent and opposition to the government. You claim that the dictatorial tyrants will REALLY get rough on the dissidents if we speak out, but that is probably already happening anyway, and speaking out for what is right, has NEVER been the wrong approach to take. Sitting on our hands while gesturing to the Iranian regime, that we are still willing to talk to them and negotiate, even though they are illegitimate and subversive of democracy, is part and parcel of what the Islamic world is so pissed off at America for in the first place! We'll talk a good talk about freedom and democratic reform, but when the people rise up and look to us for support, we are undermining them at every turn, because our political leaders are whores, looking out for their own political butts, and not giving two whits about the people fighting for freedom. In this instance, the people of Iran are dying in the streets for a chance at democracy and freedom, and we are basically legitimizing the illegitimate government, telling them... yeah, we still want to kiss your ass and make you like us!
 
Taichiliberal said:
Neither he or McCain or Gingrich or Hannity or any of that ilk will give you an honest answer. And if they ever do, they don't won't to discuss the possible ramifications of their answers.
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I guess blowing mind-farts is contageous, but it's so sad when they can't think in their own words.
 
Dixie said:
But you have failed to articulate what you hope to accomplish. Success for the people of Iran is not going to happen with no outside support or encouragement, and passively allowing the tyrant regime to silence dissent and opposition to the government. You claim that the dictatorial tyrants will REALLY get rough on the dissidents if we speak out, but that is probably already happening anyway, and speaking out for what is right, has NEVER been the wrong approach to take. Sitting on our hands while gesturing to the Iranian regime, that we are still willing to talk to them and negotiate, even though they are illegitimate and subversive of democracy, is part and parcel of what the Islamic world is so pissed off at America for in the first place! We'll talk a good talk about freedom and democratic reform, but when the people rise up and look to us for support, we are undermining them at every turn, because our political leaders are whores, looking out for their own political butts, and not giving two whits about the people fighting for freedom. In this instance, the people of Iran are dying in the streets for a chance at democracy and freedom, and we are basically legitimizing the illegitimate government, telling them... yeah, we still want to kiss your ass and make you like us!
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There is only one thing that I know for sure. Announcing government support will cause the failure now, waiting a bit will aid them more than foolishly stumbling into this with no plan. Better to quietly aid them than to open our mouths and end all doubt, or any chance of success they have currently.
 
Long ago and far away I stated that I believed that what is happening now in Iran was the reason we worked to establish ourselves in that region, it would be foolish to end it before it began, Dix, or to foolishly play our hand before we even set up the card table.
 
Damocles said:
There is only one thing that I know for sure. Announcing government support will cause the failure now, waiting a bit will aid them more than foolishly stumbling into this with no plan. Better to quietly aid them than to open our mouths and end all doubt, or any chance of success they have currently.
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But we already know, keeping our mouths shut is NOT going to help them in any way! Giving the tyrant regime legitimacy, telling them that we are willing to sit down and negotiate with their illegitimate regime, is NOT going to help the protesters one bit. They have absolutely NO chance of success facing the radical Islamic regime of Iran by themselves, with NO support from the US in even the most measured way! So you are pissing in the wind, Damo! You are afraid to be bold and take a strong stance, because you foolishly think it will make the situation worse... it can't get worse, they have no freedom or democracy, they are helplessly at the whim of a tyrant regime! It's not going to get better and improve by the US remaining silent and indifferent, while legitimizing the Iranian regime!

The ONLY chance the people of Iran have, is if the world stands united against tyranny and condemns this farce of an election. Placating radical Islamic fundamentalists is not conducive with progress, we stand to gain absolutely nothing by doing it. We aren't fostering "good will" with the regime or the radicals, we aren't working toward freedom or democracy for the people of Iran..... we are sitting on our pathetic liberal asses, refusing to even support freedom and democracy, while France takes the lead in condemning what is happening in the streets of Iran!
 
Damocles said:
Long ago and far away I stated that I believed that what is happening now in Iran was the reason we worked to establish ourselves in that region, it would be foolish to end it before it began, Dix, or to foolishly play our hand before we even set up the card table.
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I agree, one of the key factors of Bush planting democracy in Iraq, was to foster democratic uprising in Iran and all over the radical Islamic world. We were all told this could never happen, we would never cause this sort of grass-roots movement, because the people there didn't really want freedom, they couldn't handle it... but it's happening before our eyes. Problem is, we are going to be "indifferent" instead of supportive! Because Neville Chamberlain-type nitwits who don't like war, are going to justify illogical insanity to keep from doing what is right here!

Stand UP for Freedom!
Stand UP for Democracy!

Don't buy this cop out and LIE from the left, that we must keep quiet, we must watch what we say... it's full of shit and you know it! We should ALWAYS Stand UP for Freedom and Democracy! That should be a GIVEN! It's NOT the "wrong" thing to do, never has been, never will be! It is the RIGHT thing to do, and we should be doing it... forcefully... strongly... and with no uncertain terms!
 
Honestly, with the government airing fake translation of Obama supporting the protesters, and no other way for the west to communicate with Iran, it doesn't matter what we do. Unless we decide to invade in support of the protesters, in which case the protesters will become incredibly unpopular.
 
meme said:
I remember when President Bush was in office, the rallying cry was-- Dissent was Patriotic..

I guess that doesn't mean the same when a Democrat is in office...

Now Dissent is called,unpatriotic, whining, dumb, stupid, give it a rest, etc, etc...
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I've called you all of those names except unpatriotic, because I am, admittedly, unpatriotic.
 
maineman said:
Bush I also encouraged the shiites in southern Iraq.... same bloody outcome.
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That is a exceptionally good example but I doubt that the right wingnuts are capable of seeing the comparison. I wonder how much compassion and calls for democracy came from that side over Zimbabwe, Burma, Sudan and the Congo?

I am firmly of the view that the Iraq war prolonged the mullah's rule in Iran, as they could always say that you may not like us but look what would happen if we were not around. Iran has over 70% of its population under 30 and they do not remember the Shah, the revolution or the Iraq Iran war. They will eventually win over the religious zealots. This article from Fox News is surprisingly fair and accurate about the current situation.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,176456,00.html
 
Reply to Dixie;

belme1201 said:
STILL waiting to hear what you and The Supreme Leader would have Obama say, in your own words please. Also, for comparison's sake, please clue us in on what the bush reaction was to the Tienenmen Square uprising. Certainly, since you are so vociferous about Obama's mishandling of Iran, you would be able to further your point by enlightening those of us here with your balanced comparison of right(bush) and wrong(Obama) in similar situations.
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Foolish me, I should know better than to expect any more than empty talking-point rhetoric rather than a logical, honest, defense of your(and of course, Rush's) position. It's typical on this board. I simply would have liked to know what Obama should have said and how it differs from the Tiananmen situation.

A line from MacBeth seems appropriate here for the ridiculous cut and paste opinion posts with no defenses by those posters because they have no opinions of their own other than those acquired on cue;

.."It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing."

My thanks to W. Shakespeare, as is so often the case, he said it better than I could.
 
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belme1201 said:
Reply to Dixie;




Foolish me, I should know better than to expect any more than empty talking-point rhetoric rather than a logical, honest, defense of your(and of course, Rush's) position. It's typical on this board. I simply would have liked to know what Obama should have said and how it differs from the Tiananmen situation.

A line from MacBeth seems appropriate here for the ridiculous cut and paste opinion posts with no defenses by those posters because they have no opinions of their own other than those acquired on cue;

.."It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing."

My thanks to W. Shakespeare, as is so often the case, he said it better than I could.
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My god, you wreak of pinheadedness! First, you quote yourself... then you defend the indefensible because it's Obama... then you resort to quoting Shakespeare! Could it BE more obvious?

It has taken this president two weeks and three press conferences to muster the courage to say he "condemns" the actions of the Iranian government. It should have been said the FIRST time, but Obama had to see the results of his indifferent attitude and realize this wasn't good for his poll numbers. Our only saving grace might be, that Obama loves himself more than he hates standing up for freedom and democracy.
 
Originally Posted by belme1201
Reply to Dixie;


Foolish me, I should know better than to expect any more than empty talking-point rhetoric rather than a logical, honest, defense of your(and of course, Rush's) position. It's typical on this board. I simply would have liked to know what Obama should have said and how it differs from the Tiananmen situation.

A line from MacBeth seems appropriate here for the ridiculous cut and paste opinion posts with no defenses by those posters because they have no opinions of their own other than those acquired on cue;

.."It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing."

My thanks to W. Shakespeare, as is so often the case, he said it better than I could.
Click to expand...

Dixie said:
My god, you wreak of pinheadedness! First, you quote yourself... then you defend the indefensible because it's Obama... then you resort to quoting Shakespeare! Could it BE more obvious?

It has taken this president two weeks and three press conferences to muster the courage to say he "condemns" the actions of the Iranian government. It should have been said the FIRST time, but Obama had to see the results of his indifferent attitude and realize this wasn't good for his poll numbers. Our only saving grace might be, that Obama loves himself more than he hates standing up for freedom and democracy.
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You, my Confederate flag waving friend, are the quintessential neocon parrot. Well, your official counter part from Fox News tried the same BS on the national stage, and got put in his place. Deal with it, or don't...because at this point you're just blowing smoke:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/vi..._obama_what_took_so_long_to_be_concerned.html
 
:lmao:


More lies and distortions from The One! The FIRST press conference, he said he was "deeply concerned" and that was it! The SECOND press conference, he altered that... he was "troubled" and "moved" by what he saw! It took THREE press conferences for Obama to CONDEMN what he should have from the start!

Major Garrett nailed his ass on it. Thanks for the video!
 
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