October 7, - cause and effect

IBDaMann said:
one teenager dead.
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One teenager died? Maybe he was a Hamas militant, and maybe not. Hamas does recruit teenagers... Actually, the US Marines recruit teenagers too. Teenager does not mean too young to fight.

And that is weighed against Hamas killing 767 civilians, including 36 children. They specifically targeted children for killing. They did everything they could to avoid engaging soldiers.

A good example is Shani Louk. She was a German tattoo artist in Israel for a music concert. She was taken captive brought back to Gaza, then raped repeatedly, then beheaded, and finally her body was dragged through Gaza. Even had Hamas mistaken her for a soldier, they would have known of their mistake during the days it took to kill her. And her being a captive meant there was no good reason to kill her.
 
Doc Dutch said:
The Ottoman Turks controlled the lands of which are being discussed. The Muslims ruled those lands for hundreds of years.

That said, I concede my terms could be wrong. Replace the word "Arabs" with Muslims and I'll stand by my posts. TIA
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Yes, the Ottoman Turks failed miserably. They were Muslims, but definitely not Arabs. They are originally from Central Asia, and are about as related to the Arabs as the English are. Both the English and Turks have adopted a Middle Eastern religion, but have little ancient cultural ties to the Middle East.

With WWI, Arabs began taking control of the Middle East. They had controlled the Middle East 500 years before, but were regaining control.
 
Walt said:
There has probably been a continuous minor Jewish population for 3,000+ years, but there has been gaps for the majority of the Jews.
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Source for your unadulterated bullshit?

Walt said:
This includes the Babylonian Captivity when they were kept in the Neo-Babylonian Empire, and the Fall of the Second Temple, when the Romans destroyed Judea, and "dispersed" the Jews. If you are willing to go back further than 3,000 years, there were Jews there, but again gaps, according to the Bible: the exile to Egypt.

The Roman exiling, I do not like calling it a "dispersal", involved renaming the land from Judea to Palestine. Palestine was named after the Philistines, who had also inhabited the general area. The Philistines were an Indo-European people related to the Greeks.
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There never was any nation called Palestine Walt. There most likely never will be. The so-called "Palestinians" are merely the Jews and Arabs that have been in the region for thousands of years.

"Palestinian" is a false terrorist narrative invented by terrorists for terrorists and gullible dupes like you.
 
Walt said:
There was never a country called Palestine. There was a nation within different empires called Palestine. There were people, both self identified, and identified by others called Palestinians. Some of those Palestinians were also Jews.
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Correct, there never was a nation called Palestine. There were the Palestinian territories.

Walt said:
There was a country called Philistine, which Palestine was named after by the Romans.
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Yet, no nation called Palestine. It was a territory occupied by Arabs and Jews alike. Some Christians as well.

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Truth Detector said:
Again, it was not a nation. How many times does that have to be pounded into your empty head for you to comprehend the OBVIOUS?
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An empire is made up of multiple nations. The four empires that have controlled Palestine all called it Palestine.
 
Walt said:
An empire is made up of multiple nations. The four empires that have controlled Palestine all called it Palestine.
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Yet, it is not a nation. You're a prime example of why one cannot argue with uneducated dotards like you. You can't comprehend the OBVIOUS. :palm:
 
Walt said:
There was never a country called Palestine. There was a nation within different empires called Palestine. There were people, both self identified, and identified by others called Palestinians. Some of those Palestinians were also Jews.

There was a country called Philistine, which Palestine was named after by the Romans.
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There is no such people - the Palestinians. There were Philistines who disappeared like the Egyptians. Since the formation of the Arab Caliphate, Arabs have lived in Palestine, as well as in Egypt, Tunisia, Algeria, and Morocco. By decision of the UN, the territory of Palestine was divided into two states - Jewish and Arab - Israel and Palestine.
 
Alik Bahshi said:
There is no such people - the Palestinians. There were Philistines who disappeared like the Egyptians. Since the formation of the Arab Caliphate, Arabs have lived in Palestine, as well as in Egypt, Tunisia, Algeria, and Morocco. By decision of the UN, the territory of Palestine was divided into two states - Jewish and Arab - Israel and Palestine.
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Are their Georgians? Or Californians?

There are definitely Egyptians and Syrians.
 
Walt said:
One teenager died?
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That's one too many for me. He was minding his own business in a refugee camp when the IDF burst in and made target practice out of him. There aren't any "maybe"s

Walt said:
And that is weighed against Hamas killing 767 civilians, including 36 children.
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So you are advocating for collective punishment. That makes you an immoral shit and is an admission on your part that you fully recognize that the IDF is violating the Fourth Geneva Convention.

The teenager never attacked Israel. The IDF just wanted to kill some Arabs and destroy Arab assets/resources.

Walt said:
A good example is Shani Louk.
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I acknowledge that neither she nor the teenager in question ever attacked Israel. Both of their deaths are heartwrenching. Are you stating officially that both "deserved what they got"?
 
IBDaMann said:
You are delusional.
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If there is such a people as the Palestinians, then in this case there is also such a people as the Israelis. By the way, Arabs who have Israeli citizenship are also Israelis. You demonstrate your lack of understanding of what a people is.
Following your logic, Jews and Arabs are one people. As a result, you do not understand how one nation differs from another. Israelis are not a people, but citizens of the State of Israel! Also, Arabs living in Palestine are Palestinians, that is, citizens of Palestine.
 
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NiftyNiblick said:
Alik Bahshi said:
Also, Arabs living in Palestine are Palestinians, that is, citizens of Palestine.
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How is this possible?
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I'm curious about that too. If they have passports that say Palestine, then doesn't that mean they have their second state? What's the problem?

If true, Ali Baba is technically correct. Arabs aren't a race, they are a culture. Palestinians, like the Israelis, are nation. It's like the difference between Jews and Israelis.
 
Alik Bahshi said:
If there is such a people as the Palestinians, then in this case there is also such a people as the Israelis.
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You should get your semantics straight. Philistine is a nation whereas Israel is a country. You demonstrate your lack of understanding of what a people is.

Alik Bahshi said:
By the way, Arabs who have Israeli citizenship are also Israelis.
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... because Israel is a country. See above. Following your logic, Jews and Arabs are one people. As a result, you do not understand how one nation differs from one country. Israelis are not a people, but citizens of a country! Also, Palestinians are Philistines, or "Philishtina" in Hebrew, that is, people of Palestine.
 
IBDaMann said:
The nation of Philistines, or "Philishtina" in Hebrew.
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O.K. The Philistines and their country disappeared into history. Today there is no such country as Philistine. Philistine was destroyed by the Egyptians. However, the name of this territory changed to Palestine and this name has survived to this day. Here lived the Semitic peoples of the Heths, Canaanites, Amovites, and Jews, who emerged as a people from Egypt, forming Israel. The territory of Palestine passed into various empires. And since the time of the Arab Caliphate, Arabs have lived in Palestine. After the fall of the Arab Caliphate, the entire Middle East came under the power of the Turks. After World War I, the entire Middle East was redrawn by the British and French. In 1947, by decision of the UN, two states were to be created on the historical territory of Palestine - Jewish and Arab. The latter was not created; the Arabs, who make up the majority of the population of Palestine, were expelled by the Jews into the enclave of the Palestinian Authority, while the other part of the Arabs fled to neighboring countries. This is a brief historical background.
 
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