Oh Lord, where Ark thou?

ZenMode said:
By claiming that Noah had polar bears on the ark, or that polar bears evolved after the flood, you actually are making "when" claims..
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???....but I didn't.......my belief is that all species of bears evolved after the flood.......I make no claims regarding the date polar bears evolved or the flood occurred......
 
Cypress said:
The monkey experiment is just a mathematical abstraction which provides us real insight into the nature of possibility.

I am just saying the constraints on the mathematical abstraction should be based on what we actually do know about the universe.
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I see it as an example of odds. The power of large numbers versus the range of possibilities.

Consider the COVID pandemic. If the mortality rate is 2.7%, the average person would think “It can’t happen to me”. 97.3 times out of 100, they’d be right. OTOH, if they have 100 relatives and close friends, then the odds favor them being wrong 2.7% of the time meaning two or more dead relatives and/or friends.

Out of 100 million, they’d be wrong 2,700,000 times. The US has lost about 1M Americans to COVID. Most Americans can’t even comprehend that number and far too many even deny that many have died of COVID yet that number is there as it is with the know 6.2 million global fatalities.

Note how many people deny that’s even possible since they can’t even comprehend the scale of numbers.
 
PostmodernProphet said:
???....but I didn't.......my belief is that all species of bears evolved after the flood.......I make no claims regarding the date polar bears evolved or the flood occurred......
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One of two things has to be true - you either believe that the flood happened 70k+ years ago or you don't trust science's ability to accurately date fossils and believe that god had a literal hand in expediting the evolution of the polar bear.
 
PostmodernProphet said:
the Bible is certainly more credible than the atheist' theory that shit just happens randomly.......
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You've never actually read Genesis, and neither have I.

The Torah was written in ancient Hebrew, and our only exposure to it is through imperfect translations into vernacular English. It is a law of linguistics that translations, even at their best, are imperfect and flawed attempts to capture original meaning and intent.

Unless anyone here has read the the scholarship of the people who actually wrote and interpreted the Torah - specifically the Midrash, the Talmud, and the corpus of Rabbinic scholarship - the opinions of random message boarders do not carry a lot of weight
 
Cypress said:
You've never actually read Genesis, and neither have I.

The Torah was written in ancient Hebrew, and our only exposure to it is through imperfect translations into vernacular English. It is a law of linguistics that translations, even at their best, are imperfect and flawed attempts to capture original meaning and intent.

Unless anyone here has read the the scholarship of the people who actually wrote and interpreted the Torah - specifically the Midrash, the Talmud, and the corpus of Rabbinic scholarship - the opinions of random message boarders do not carry a lot of weight
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actually I have......you can too.....or if you want I can translate the first two chapters for you......
here, follow along...
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/

Genesis 1:1 Hebrew imperative; command.
literal translation: In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth!!!

any questions so far?.....
 
ZenMode said:
One of two things has to be true - you either believe that the flood happened 70k+ years ago or you don't trust science's ability to accurately date fossils and believe that god had a literal hand in expediting the evolution of the polar bear.
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/shrugs.....or the third option......that your assumptions about the first two were pulled out of your ass and are not logically founded.......I actually lean in that direction.......
 
PostmodernProphet said:
actually I have......you can too.....or if you want I can translate the first two chapters for you......
here, follow along...
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/

Genesis 1:1 Hebrew imperative; command.
literal translation: In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth!!!

any questions so far?.....
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. Rabbinic Judaism is the dominant strain of Judaism.

Riiiight. You claim to speak and read ancient Hebrew.

Does God know you love lying?
 
The First and Second Temple style of Judaism hadn't existed for two thousand years.

The Hebrew scholars I have listened to say that in Rabbinic Judaism, allegorical interpretation of Genesis has been the dominant form of Torah and Talmudic scholarship since at least the middle ages
 
Cypress said:
. Rabbinic Judaism is the dominant strain of Judaism.

Riiiight. You claim to speak and read ancient Hebrew.

Does God know you love lying?
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silly sod, I didn't say I can speak it........I can in fact translate it......I have taken three graduate school classes in Hebrew........any other questions?.....
 
Cypress said:
The Hebrew scholars I have listened to say that in Rabbinic Judaism, allegorical interpretation of Genesis has been the dominant form of Torah and Talmudic scholarship since at least the middle ages
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I have given you the opportunity to read it for yourself........have you taken the opportunity?......
 
PostmodernProphet said:
silly sod, I didn't say I can speak it........I can in fact translate it......I have taken three graduate school classes in Hebrew........any other questions?.....
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I don't believe you are fluent in Hebrew, I do not believe you have read the Torah in Hebrew, and I don't think you have studied the related Rabbinic scholarship in the Mishnah, Midrash, and Talmud.

In fact, I think you are capable of lying your fat ass off that you supposedly have
 
Cypress said:
So your assertion is that you have read the Torah in the original Hebrew, and have studied the associated scholarship in the Mishnah and Talmud?
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it was in fact a requirement of the first class to read the book of Genesis in Hebrew........as to Mishnah and Talmud no......it wasn't a Jewish school.....
 
Anybody over the age of two and a half who believes the Bible literally should be kindly and humanely euthanized for his/her own good.

Please do not consider this a hyperbolic statement. I literally mean it.
 
Code1211 said:
Originally Posted by Taichiliberal View Post
1. Your "digressions" non-withstanding, you have yet to just concede a point. You were wrong on a few things. Deal with it or don't, but spare me the smoke blowing.

2. YOU injected the climate change debate in your assertions regarding Nye's scientific credibility. I merely responded with common sense observations that to date cannot be answered straight forward by climate change deniers. Instead of directly dealing with my statements, you blather on with some drivel about the Sahara and essentially create your own discussion that ignores what you don't like or can't dismiss.

3. You ignore the other points regarding #3 and #5

So my previous post stands valid.
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AGW does not exist. Proving it does not exist is not even a thing. It is up to the folks that are creating it out of nothing to prove that it DOES exist.

Nye is a proponent of AGW Science and as such is a propagandist, not a scientist. No mystery there.

Wrong is an interesting word. How can anyone be wrong on anything that is not a proven and observed FACT? Spiritual and non-physical things are not observable.
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Your first sentence is just regurgitated drivel that STILL avoids my fact based point. I'll post it here for the objective readers to see, because clearly you suffer from intellectual honesty. Let me put this side bar to rest: to say that over 230 years of increasing global deforestation, industrialization and its air/ground/sea pollution, urbanization on grand scales has no (or negligible) effect on the planet's eco-system is just illogical (or to put plainly, stupid). Too many bonafide scientists from various fields with more extensive credentials than Nye's concur. Industrial lobbies work long and hard on their propaganda to deny reality...and they are losing.

Following your first sentence with your second sentence is a joke...akin to christian fundamentalism about the Bible. To them everything the Bible says is true because the source (the Bible) is irrefutable and above reproach. And I see your insipid stubbornness regarding Nye. As the chronology of the posts shows, you were proven wrong regarding his credentials, but you STILL try to denounce him as a "fraud & charlatan". Pity for you that there is more than documented evidence from folk with higher scientific pedigrees who support what he states. Capice'?

Your last sentence is a lame attempt to put words in my posts that I did not allude to. When you have the intellectual honesty/courage to deal with my original post, then we can have a discussion worth merit. Remember, YOU went down this road despite agreeing with the basic premise of the OP.
 
PostmodernProphet said:
/shrugs.....or the third option......that your assumptions about the first two were pulled out of your ass and are not logically founded.......I actually lean in that direction.......
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You made this comment early on.

"the interesting thing about an intelligent designer is that she could accomplish the same thing in a single generation that random chance required tens of thousands of years to bring about...."

If I'm way off point, then what is your belief.
 
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